Hop utlization w/ late extract using beersmith

[mr_bell]

Hey all, does Beersmith automatically (and accurately) calculate hop utilization / IBU's when doing late extract additions, and with partial boils as well?

I think the answer is yes in both cases, just would like to be sure.

 

[BlindLemonLars]

It certainly compensates for boil size and late additions, how accurately I couldn't say. It's a nice program, well worth the $$$.

 

[mr_bell]

Thanks, I purchased it, just haven't really used it much yet, just experimenting with it a little bit. Seems like a great tool, well worth the $.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I check the Late Extract addition in my extract properties box and set it to 15 minutes. My IBU calculation does not change at at all.....??

 

[weirdboy]

What's the full recipe? It certainly changes for me when I use it.

Maybe you don't have hop additions that are affected by the change?

 

[IrregularPulse]

4lbs Extra Light DRY Extract
3.3 lbs Amber Liquid Extract
1oz Simcoe at 60
1oz Simcoe at 30
1oz Simcoe at 15
1oz Simcoe at 0



And I'm looking at the Bitterness (IBUs) field under Beer Profile.
Beersmith V1_40 Build 037

 

[weirdboy]

Both extract additions are late?

 

[Yooper]

Do you want to attach the BSM file here, so we can open it and see what's going on? It's easy. Just export file as a BSM file, and use the paperclip icon above to attach it, then insert it into a post.

 

[weirdboy]

OK.

If I put your recipe in BeerSmith and click on both "late extract addition" checkboxes for the extracts, both set to 15 minutes. I get 123 IBUs.

If I then double-click on the Amber Liquid extract to edit, and click off the checkbox for late extract addition, it changes to 93 IBUs.

If I also turn off the checkbox for the DME, I get 63 IBUs.

 

[Yooper]

Yeah- as a 3 gallon boil with the LME added late, I get 80.4 IBUs.

See:

View attachment ipbeer.bsm

But if change the boil size, or add the DME late too, it changes like crazy. Same recipe, with the DME added late (and not the LME) and keeping the boil size at 3 gallons gives me 92.4 IBUs.

 

[weirdboy]

Oh right, I forgot about the partial boil.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I'm doing a 6.5 Gallon boil for a 5.5 gallon batch.

This is wierd I'm doing the exact same thing and It's not changing.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Is there any benefit to a late addition is doing a full boil? What if i just dissolve all the extract into hot water, then bring to a boil. Seems easier.

And does that recipe seem it would taste ok? Going for an IPA with just extract, o steeping grains on hand.
One of those, Squeeze in a quick brew tonight cause SWMBO and Little man are gonna be out of town at the inlaws.

 

[weirdboy]

Is there any benefit to a late addition is doing a full boil?

Use less hops, less carmelization.


The only thing I feel is missing in that recipe is something to improve the head. But I don't think I've ever used amber liquid extract so that might be fine.

 

[IrregularPulse]

It's just a throw together so if it doesn't have great head I'm not too worried about it. Can I throw Rolled Oats in to steep for head renention? Same as flaked oats? Maybe soak them for 20 minutes while water comes to boil.....???

 

[Yooper]

If you're doing a full boil, I don't think there would be any advantage at all for doing a late extract addition. I mean, I'd do the AG version with a full boil, at the same SG, same ingredients, etc. So, if you do a late extract in a full boil, you're not going to even be able to compare it to an AG version.

For a full boil, I'd skip the late addition.

 

[Yooper]

No, you definitely don't want to steep oats. You'd only get a starch haze out of them.

 

[Yooper]

I also just want to point out that I love bitter beers- but with a full boil, you're way up there in IBUs and the IBU/SG ratio is 1.5ish. That's even too much for me. I love hops (and simcoe in particular) but I don't think I could drink that.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't think you can get anything from the oats without mashing them, since they cannot self-convert.

 

[IrregularPulse]

If you're doing a full boil, I don't think there would be any advantage at all for doing a late extract addition. I mean, I'd do the AG version with a full boil, at the same SG, same ingredients, etc. So, if you do a late extract in a full boil, you're not going to even be able to compare it to an AG version.

For a full boil, I'd skip the late addition.

No, you definitely don't want to steep oats. You'd only get a starch haze out of them.

I also just want to point out that I love bitter beers- but with a full boil, you're way up there in IBUs and the IBU/SG ratio is 1.5ish. That's even too much for me. I love hops (and simcoe in particular) but I don't think I could drink that.

I don't think you can get anything from the oats without mashing them, since they cannot self-convert.

Thanks for the tips
I will skip the oats and lower the 60 minute addition. What would your hop schedule be for a nice hop bomb but not too unbalanced Yoop?
I'm not skilled to the point of making recipes yet, but can make a fine beer with a proven recipe.
Thanks for the help everyone. I'll just dissolve all extract and bring up to a boil.
What is Simcoe like flavor wise??

 

[weirdboy]

I have an IPA that I just made which is about 65 IBUs and 1.065 gravity that tastes fantastic, but it finished at 1.016. So, I don't necessarily think that 63 IBUs at 1.059 is over the top assuming you're not doing late additions, and you have a higher finishing gravity.

However, I think the timing of your additions is a little. I think you'd be better off doing a 60 minute, a 20-minute, a 10-minute, and a 0-minute.

According to beersmith that puts your recipe at around 55 IBUs and will give it a rich flavor and aroma. Of course, I'd also dry hop.

The final gravity is really the key. If it is highly attenuating and finishes dry, the bitterness is going to be pretty sharp. But I'd expect with an extract brew and typical attenuation you're going to end up around 1.012 to 1.015.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I was just throwing it out there for Hop additions. I think a 60, 20 and 10 sounds good too. 30 minute additions don't seem too common and I tihnk probably would get lost between bittering and flavoring.

 

[Yooper]

I was just throwing it out there for Hop additions. I think a 60, 20 and 10 sounds good too. 30 minute additions don't seem too common and I tihnk probably would get lost between bittering and flavoring.

Yeah, I like that. You'll get more flavor and less bitterness, which will be more balanced.

Simcoe is piney to me, with a splash of citrus thrown in. I like them!

 

[IrregularPulse]

Well I went with with the following
1oz at 60 (After the boil over)
1oz at 20
1 oz at 10
1oz at flameout
Sample tasted like an IPA already Kind made me cough at first, but I'm sure the bitterness will fade/blend during fermentation.
Thanks for the tips everyone.