Boiling water additions kill off important enzymes, and it also changes your mash thickness, which in turn changes your worts profile. When you use a RMS RIMS or HERMS type setup, your water/grain ratio stays the same. Thicker mashes will protect your enzymes as you boost the temps when step mashing.
(having horrible convulsions and flashbacks of old threads on this topic)
Gotcha........ Is the OP still around?? I agree with POL. I've tried steps with RIMS, HERMS, and Steam. For me, boiling water infusions achieve the best efficiency and best wort profile.
I didn't disagree with you...
I'm just reacting to how this topic seems to end up.
With science on one side and enthusiasm on the other?
Thats what the internet is for.
How about steam mixed into the recirculating wort with mixed liquid temperature at next rest target temperature.
All available evidence (except perhaps your own anecdotal evidence) suggests otherwise.
Fix wrote abo
Actually, I believe he is correct. I have been reading extensively about decoction brewing lately and it appears that the mash still converts because of rests at the appropriate temperature before the boil denatures the enzymes. Of course, the enzymes in the non-decocted portion continue to work on the mash.
Here is an interesting research article of enzymes and while not brewing specific I believe it holds water:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8679/the_effect_of_temperature_on_amylase.html
Boiling a portion of the mash for many minutes is sure a different level of thermal loading than mixing 210 degree water and 140 degree mash to make a 150 degree mash in less than a minute, isn't it?
I will concede that boiling enzymes hard for half an hour will effectively denature them.
Lets get back to the unrelated issue of infusion mashing.
Since most of us have effectively done steps using infusions of boiling water it sure can be done but I bet it's the same principle anyway. Probably some of the hot infusion denatures the enzymes located at the point of contact but most of them rest at the desired temp.
I guess my question is "how quickly enzymes denature at a particular temp"? Is it immediate? Is it 1 minute? 5 Minutes?
I'll tell you what I have learned since first playing with the herms design in the early 90's.
You can not use ice chests/coolers for a mash tun on a working herms unit . The cooler is designed to hold its temperature. It will fight with you if you try to step mash. The cooler will absorb the heat first, then allow the liquor temp to rise a bit, then the cooler again will absorb, then again allow the wort to rise. This is a very inefficient way to raise mash temps. That's why cooler brewers do single infusion mashing and will tell you don't worry about reaching mashout temps while sparging.
You said:
Well I have bought plenty of grain from Belgium and Germany and read the analysis*. The vast majority of it has a kolbach index above 40.
Now when I see a kolbach index in the low 40s, as I nearly always do with German and Belgian grain, I decide not to employ a protein rest.
You obviously think I am wrong. Let's hear why.
*Er, what I meant to say is that I remember with John Maier and George Fix were just starting to buy their malt from Germany and Belgium.
well if a cooler doesn't absorb the heat, why do you have to preheat a cooler, or put water 15-20* higher then strike temps in the cooler?This statement is absolutely false. The cooler isn't absorbing any significant amount of heat, by their very nature, insulative materials have low specific heat. The cooler is preventing the mash from losing heat, not the other way around. Using an uninsulated vessel is far worse if you're looking for fast steps.
Somehow that will kill enzymes, despite the fact that they were never alive.
kolbach of over 45 is considered over modified 40 can improve from a short protein rest this last batch my kolbach was 37 and 79 fine grind extraction with a difference of fine/coarse @ 1.7, and friability was 81, would this benefit from a protein rest?
That doesn't mean that other people are wrong for not doing a protein rest with the malt they have.
It looks like you are uninterested in defending all the crap you were talking the other day, I'm not really interested in helping you to weasel out of it by acting like you were just talking about the malt you happen to be using.
well if a cooler doesn't absorb the heat, why do you have to preheat a cooler, or put water 15-20* higher then strike temps in the cooler?
It does absorb heat, everything does. It also does the best job of preventing the mash from losing heat.
Also, I think you have a different cooler than me, because mine needs less than 5°F to preheat.
Are you able to control the wort temperature returning to the mash as the mash warms up, or does the wort temp go over the desired rest temperature at the end of the step.
the design of a cooler is to hold temperatures.
when I have tried to raise temps, it seems the cooler will absorb the heat first then the temperature will raise. I used both Igloo and Coleman coolers trying it.
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