an outrageous idea!?!?! $$$

[cageybee]

ok, so we see the beer industry morphing in such a way that microbreweries are taking off, and home brewing seems to be growing as well. I assume that this means that (among other things) that the American consumer (in this case) is again declaring their preferences where beer is concerned....and that preference is for "choice". To be able to choose/control what is available for them to enjoy (setting BMC drinkers aside, because they've made a different choice that we can respect). Taking this to a (ridiculous?) extreme: why couldn't, in a city like Denver let's say, a company that custom-brews 5 gallon batches for customers be successful? we custom brew batches for ourselves, many of our friends enjoy the fruits of our labor...but they don't necessarily want to go through the process/hassle of brewing it themselves. it would seem that if that company provided an "experience" that included educating thier customers on what ingredients produce what effects (with other sage advice), the customer could be provided the opportunity to create a beer (recipe) themselves...thereby making them powerful "owners" of the product they bought (never mind that 100 other customers may have created the same recipe)....this one is called KGB's brown ale. or whatever. ok, that's enough from me...just want to start the thread to see what others think. ridiculous?

 

[SilverZero]

I've had thoughts like this before, and in my mind it always comes back to my assumption that most people aren't patient enough to wait 3 weeks (more for bottles) for a custom beer, especially if they don't know how it will taste. There might be a niche, but my feeling is that it would be limited.

 

[amandabab]

brew on premesis is close.

customer buys ingredients and rents the equipment and storage space. customer is doing all the brewing and is common in canada and growing in US states where homebrew can be taken outside of the residence.

actually brewing custom 5 gallon batches for a customer would mean all the regular brewery start up and batches would need to be expensive to make a profit.

 

[acidrain]

I think there are two kinds of beer drinkers... those that want to brew their own, and those that want to just go to the store and buy some.
I don't think a "go to the store and buy some" guy will take the time to learn the ingredients for a custom brew.
It will be interesting to see how the consumer dictates store bought brews though... I already see more custom bombers than I ever have.

 

[reverendj1]

Although this would be cool (for people who don't want to homebrew, but still have "their own" beer), I don't think it would be financially feasible for the brewery. They'd have to tack on costs for things such as space, man-hours, etc, etc. that we as homebrewers don't include in the costs for our hobby. I would guess that your 5 gallon keg (or whatever) would end up being sold at a price that would far surpass what people would be willing to pay. Of course, this is all conjecture, and I don't really know what the costs would be, or what the market for something like this would be. It's just my best guess that it would be prohibitively expense for both the brewer and consumer.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

there's quite a few places around that have kits where the customer brews, leaves it there to ferment in a temp controlled environment, and comes back to bottle. I'd say you'd have to have a complete understanding of the wide variety of styles to custom tailor brews for the customer, and SMaSH samples for them to get an understanding of what they want. but I personally don't think it's ridiculous. it's kind of a good idea, really. I'm not sure how feasible it is on a financial level. but being in a proper city should help generate enough interest & business.

 

[cageybee]

I'm sure it would be limited (by the wait), but as we build our pipelines, so to the customer could be educated to build theirs. I think that if the product was believed to be "superior" for whatever reason that the customer would wait...look at how long ahead of time people pre-order phones, etc. "ya, I had to wait...but it was worth it"

 

[reverendj1]

brew on premesis is close.

customer buys ingredients and rents the equipment and storage space. customer is doing all the brewing and is common in canada and growing in US states where homebrew can be taken outside of the residence.

actually brewing custom 5 gallon batches for a customer would mean all the regular brewery start up and batches would need to be expensive to make a profit.

I forgot about those places. I don't know of any around me, but I have seen them on TV shows. I think that would really be the best way to accomplish the idea, and it already does seem to be working. At least for some people.

 

[cageybee]

for the economics to work, you would have to remember you're selling an EXPERIENCE (star bux). who the flock would have predicted that someone could sell a cup of coffee for several bucks? so think of a shop in which customers can compare notes about what THEY brewed while there standing in line or sampling or people watching..all the while you got gurus (ala an apple store) walking around giving out tips..etc.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

for the economics to work, you would have to remember you're selling an EXPERIENCE (star bux). who the flock would have predicted that someone could sell a cup of coffee for several bucks? so think of a shop in which customers can compare notes about what THEY brewed while there standing in line or sampling or people watching..all the while you got gurus (ala an apple store) walking around giving out tips..etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think Denver would be a great place to start. what you'll need to consider is the amount of time & licenses to get off the ground. you'll basically be starting a micro brewery. start looking for investors now.

 

[d3track]

Are you thinking of this place?
http://www.vinepark.com/

 

[amandabab]

for the economics to work, you would have to remember you're selling an EXPERIENCE (star bux). who the flock would have predicted that someone could sell a cup of coffee for several bucks? so think of a shop in which customers can compare notes about what THEY brewed while there standing in line or sampling or people watching..all the while you got gurus (ala an apple store) walking around giving out tips..etc.

you can accomplish this with BOP, but if you're going to do any manufacturing
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/i-went-pro-what-actually-takes-do-so-386476/

 

[drtrkrcr123]

The problem is that it might be a one time deal. I mean either it will be a novelty or a starting point for home brewers. My brother tried it to see if he would like home brewing. The challenge will be to have repeat customers.

 

[Saxomophone]

Like this?
http://www.portlandubrewandpub.com/u-brew/

 

[cageybee]

believe it or not, I suspect that the u-brew concept would not help me get to the customers I think I would need to reach. the entry costs into the hobby are too low...some would still be intimidated (I'll screw it up publicly).....or I don't want to do the work, I just want to be the artist...or I make too much money to brew it myself....whatever. I think I need to reach the same kind of people who could brew a decent cup of coffee but prefer to pay starbucks to do it for them.

 

[mosquitocontrol]

I think if you were to be successful at this Denver/CO would not be the way to go. You would need a market where people have excess cash to blow and their self esteem/worth is dependent on others. Where people are looking for the cool factor and willing to pay for it. I think California, silicon valley, DC, NYC anywhere where the majority of people make lots of money and wear suits. Yes, Denver has people way into beer but it also has people who take pride in making things themselves.

 

[cageybee]

best location is interesting....it's just that I have some business contacts in Denver that might be useful.....and Denver is one beer drinkin town....as you well know.

 

[TopherM]

Don't forget also that 38 of the 50 states in the country are three tier or alcohol control states where the breweries CAN NOT sell directly to the consumer, they are forced to go through a distributor to artificially inflate the price and keep breweries from controlling retail outlets for alcohol.

The exception in most states is brew pubs/tasting rooms.

I think in most states, brew on premesis is legal, but I would assume the loophole to allow a brewery to have BOP to cut out the distributor is long closed. I think you'd be able to run a BOP business, but not WITHIN a brewery.

Just some thoughts....

 

[abrix]

I think in most states, brew on premesis is legal, but I would assume the loophole to allow a brewery to have BOP to cut out the distributor is long closed. I think you'd be able to run a BOP business, but not WITHIN a brewery.

This is just one example, but the Saugatuck Brewing Co. in Michigan has a BOP operation.

I think the relative dearth of BOP operations -- I can think of at least two other BOPs in Michigan that have closed or shifted their focus away from BOP -- suggests that it's a pretty small niche. I imagine the margin for error in siting, marketing, and production quality will be small, but it could be a means to build a customer base for the LHBS that you run on the side (since you have to stock ingredients anyway).

 

[Bobby_M]

If you actually brew the batch for the customer, you're a brewery. In that case, you're into small batch economics and will not be profitable unless you actually find people willing to pay a very large premium for something one of a kind. If you go BOP model, the batch price for the customer will have to be pretty high and that model will actually force that customer to take up brewing on their own once they understand the process. The reason why this is OK is that most BOPs are also homebrew supply shops so you gain a long term consumables customer (hopefully).

 

[cageybee]

the economics are interesting indeed. Determining the Reservation Price for custom crafted beer I think would be highly dependent on the total experience provided. think: mini keg exchange, online recipe book for each customer, orders via web/email, delivery, the sub community/ sub culture created, relationships built between customer and the business/staff, special events/sponsored competitions, buy-backs, bottle exchanges, beer swapping, customized labels, classes, taste testing other peoples brews (because we are doing the brewing), etc. Some/many of these are provided by lhbs's. we seem to be willing to pay $7.00 for a beer in some venues, for beer that we might even like all that much.........somehow an endeavor like this needs to create its own market...like (again) Starbucks did.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think the capital required to make it work would be pretty high for the fact that you have to be able to wait for the market to develop. Now that I'm brewing to my own consumption standards, it's hard to sympathize with the hypothetical character who likes extremely unique craft beer that doesn't get what they desire from current medium sized breweries but would be willing to pay a 400% premium.

 

[cageybee]

the capital $ required could actually be minimal (capital as in plant, property, and equipment). rent a store-front, create a website, buy 200 glass carboys and a bunch of supplies...I dunno....my point is, there is no reason to build a brewery...

 

[fosaisu]

These guys: http://www.doyourbrew.com/ are doing brew on premises in Denver (well Westminster so technically just north of Denver) as part of the LHBS. No idea if they're turning a profit but they do appear to have recently expanded their place.

 

[cageybee]

not the same business as I was proposing as this is a u-brew type. still interesting though, thanks for posting. they could easily morph the business if they thought it would be advantageous.

 

[AMonkey]

my point is, there is no reason to build a brewery...

If you brew for the customers you will have to start a brewery. Otherwise you will be selling homebrew which is illegal. If you have the customer help brew the beer you are talking a BOP, which are gaining in popularity.

 

[shoreman]

This was done in wine by a place in San Fran that i think went out of biz - they even had web cams on your barrel and you could design the grape content/labels and have it shipped out to you.

 

[HumboldtBrewer]

When I lived in Southern California, there WA a place ex

 

[HumboldtBrewer]

When I lived in Southern California there was a place that did exactly what you are talking about. Choose a recipe, brew it on their equipment, come back and bottle and take 50 beers home. A buddy of mine did it for his birthday and it cost something like $90 bucks for the "experience". The place shortly went out of business.

 

[Clonefan94]

ok, so we see the beer industry morphing in such a way that microbreweries are taking off, and home brewing seems to be growing as well. I assume that this means that (among other things) that the American consumer (in this case) is again declaring their preferences where beer is concerned....and that preference is for "choice". To be able to choose/control what is available for them to enjoy (setting BMC drinkers aside, because they've made a different choice that we can respect). Taking this to a (ridiculous?) extreme: why couldn't, in a city like Denver let's say, a company that custom-brews 5 gallon batches for customers be successful? we custom brew batches for ourselves, many of our friends enjoy the fruits of our labor...but they don't necessarily want to go through the process/hassle of brewing it themselves. it would seem that if that company provided an "experience" that included educating thier customers on what ingredients produce what effects (with other sage advice), the customer could be provided the opportunity to create a beer (recipe) themselves...thereby making them powerful "owners" of the product they bought (never mind that 100 other customers may have created the same recipe)....this one is called KGB's brown ale. or whatever. ok, that's enough from me...just want to start the thread to see what others think. ridiculous?

There are a lot of people in this world that hear, "Honey, the bathroom needs redone." and think, "I can do that." and go about doing it. Granted, they may call in a plumber (maltster) or an electrician (yeast producers) but, in the end, they are doing the real work, making a new bathroom. I think the beer brewing culture is the same. You have the people that drink a beer and think, "Wow, I wonder how they did that, I think I'm going to give this a shot." These are the same kind of people. Amazingly, I've redone two bathrooms and a kitchen in my house as well, down to the studs.

So, to my point. I don't think the trick is finding the potential homebrewer in your every day person. Too many people are content to buy the beer at the store, ready to drink. I think the key is to find that market of people, who are somewhat on the "I can do that" side and focus on them. There are just way too many BMC drinkers I know to think that everyone has the potential to homebrew. It's a certain kind of spirit, drive, it's not about money, it's about making something yourself, finding the pride in that. Being able to sit at the dinner table, even it's it's by yourself, take a sip and think, "Yeah, yeah darn it, I made this, I started with grain or extract, I boiled, I waited and in the end, I made this beverage and you know what, no matter what anyone else thinks, it's beautiful."

The only real commercial drive i have, is that I would love for a commercial brewer to taste my beer and ask me for the reciepe and to give them a hand brewing it. That would be fun, but that's really the only "commercial" aspirations I have. I have no drive to re-do other people's kitchens or bathrooms either.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

When I lived in Southern California there was a place that did exactly what you are talking about. Choose a recipe, brew it on their equipment, come back and bottle and take 50 beers home. A buddy of mine did it for his birthday and it cost something like $90 bucks for the "experience". The place shortly went out of business.

a guy I talk to goes to a brew-on-site in Canada. has been for years. some places just aren't ready for or don't want the experience. it wouldn't work in a hundred mile radius where I am.

 

[val214]

There is a place out in Huntington Beach that let's you brew your batch and come back to pick up your bottles after its done. It's fairly expensive for what you get in return as far as beer(s). http://www.brewbakers1.com/BBAboutBeer.htm

 

[LovesIPA]

I think California, silicon valley, DC, NYC anywhere where the majority of people make lots of money and wear suits.

This whole statement, especially the bolded part, literally made me laugh out loud. Have you ever even been to Silicon Valley?

 

[amandabab]

the capital $ required could actually be minimal (capital as in plant, property, and equipment). rent a store-front, create a website, buy 200 glass carboys and a bunch of supplies...I dunno....my point is, there is no reason to build a brewery...

building a brewery is absolutely essential, even if its a nano/pico scale. it has to be built and approved.
renting a facility that can be used to brew while the inspections and licensing approval go through. the brewery space has to be rented/leased//bought before the lisencing process begins. health and wastewater regs too. you Won't be doing it in a "storefront"


you can't sell homebrew.

 

[fuzzy2133]

This whole statement, especially the bolded part, literally made me laugh out loud. Have you ever even been to Silicon Valley?

Yep many houses in my neighbor hood houses are dark till just after dinner time. These are the same people who call electricians and plumbers for what is routine repairs for most of us here on HBT.

One hobby place that has been doing well is Tech Shop. You purchase membership and use the machines they have. Just pay for or bring in the raw material.

Guglielmo winery in Morgan Hill has you bottle days.

 

[TopherM]

I've always wondered...what happens when you charge a guy $100 to brew on premesis, then the beer turns out undrinkable?

Mulligan?

 

[Bobby_M]

Every beer I've ever tried that was made in a local BOP (extract batches) was undrinkable.

 

[TopherM]

The issue being, if you sell vacuum cleaners or computers or toys, and you have to replace that item, the retailers generally have a deal with the wholesaler to simply replace the item, and/or the usable parts are recycled or refurbished to bring down overhead.

If your retail item is BOP beer, and you have to replace it because it doesn't turn out good, you lose 100% of the overhead costs of that item to replace it. That alone would make the business model tough. You'd have to have a very large profit margin to offset the large overhead costs. You literally might have to charge something on the order of $100+ for a customer to brew a batch of beer with $20.00 in ingredients.

That, and once you've taught someone how to brew a $20.00 batch, won't they do it at home for $20.00 instead of paying $100.00 to do it at your place? There wouldn't be many repeat customers, which drives up promotional/marketing costs. How are you going to have 5-10 different customers (or whatever it takes to make a profit) every brewday. At 5 days a week, assuming a small percentage are repeat customers, that's still tracking down about 1000-2500 new brewers a year. My brewclub of 110+ members "creates" about 2-4 new brewers a month, with plenty of manpower and other resources going into the effort, and even at those numbers, we never really have more than 1/4 of the membership show up to any given event.

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[cageybee]

again, the idea is to educate them (so they DONT ask for the undrinkable) take their order and brew it for them. I understand this approach may have imperial entanglements.

 

[Spartan1979]

I dunno. There's going to be labor costs. You'll have to pay the federal and state beer taxes. Lease expense, utilities, supplies, etc. For 5 gallon batches, I'm having trouble seeing at under $20/sixer. It might make a good novelty purchase or for a gift, but repeat customers might be difficult to come by. The same thing that happened to the BOP that was here.