3 Temp Fermentation Controller 1 chamber

[Huaco]

I have the capability to ferment (3) vessels at 11-12 gallons each and I had an idea how to ferment them all three at different temps and with a little brain-storming help from my buddy, this is what I came up with.

 

[Huaco]

 

[Huaco]

As Far as equipment list... here it is.

-(1) 8x8x4dp PVC junction box (electrical supply house)
-(15 ft) 14-3 flexible (electrical supply house)
-(1) Cable stay (electrical supply house)
-(3) STC-1000 controllers (NOVAPCS vendor on eBay is a US reseller with free shipping $21)
-(1) 3 gang "old work" box (box store)
-(3) receptacles (box store)
-(1) plate cover (box store)
-(18) 14 ga pin terminals (eBay)
-(X feet) Red 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
-(X feet) Black 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
-(X feet) White 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
-(X feet) Green 14 gauge type T90/THWN/THHN wire
-(3) Inline 20 Amp rated fuse holders with 10 Amp SLOW BLOW fuses installed.
-(2) 8 place terminal blocks (Radio Shack)
-(2) 8 place terminal joints (Radio Shack)
-(3) Red 120 Volt pilot lights (Radio Shack)
-(3) Green 120 Volt pilot lights (Radio Shack)
-(3) Mono headphone receptacles (Radio Shack)
-(3) Mono headphone plugs (Radio Shack)
-Various shrink-wraps
-Electrical rated Rosin-core Solder
-Soldering iron
-Enough JB Weld to epoxy the terminal blocks onto the old work box.

Most important...
LOTS OF PATIENCE!

 

[acidrain]

OK, I get the three controllers, but how does that control temps in one chamber?

 

[zymurph]

OK, I get the three controllers, but how does that control temps in one chamber?

Agreed. That is a kick-@ss temp controller setup, but what is this magical single chamber you refer to?

 

[Huaco]

-Master controller (top) drives the chest freezer (15 cu ft) down to lowest needed temp.
-Slave controllers (bottom two) heat the their respective fermentors with the DIY FermWrap from Reptile Basics . com

Concept has been proven... I lagered a batch of beer while fermenting an Ale (38*F and 62*F respectively)

See this thread for details on my ferm chamber.

It's also linked in my signature line.

 

[limulus]

Really cool builds. I read both threads and it is impressive that you can get that much of a temp difference for ales and lagers! I was glad to see someone else had the same problem I did keeping wires inserted into the STC-1000. I also wound up using pins.

 

[BetterSense]

Multi temp is definity a hot setup. I have a 2 temp setup but i use the low temp for serving kegs and the high temp for fermenting.

 

[Huaco]

Multi temp is definity a hot setup. I have a 2 temp setup but i use the low temp for serving kegs and the high temp for fermenting.

Yeah, I'm really liking it so far. In the future though, I will probably not be holding such a crazy difference in temps. I hope to batch lagers and ales together.

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco, any way you might lay out a step-by-step guide on this one. I really want to do this but my electrical experience has been limited to changing a couple of bad receptacles and my stc-1000 build. I laughed when I read one of your earlier post about little experience with electrical work and then in a six month span after wiring up your panel you seem completely chill offering up small tidbits on wiring here and there.

 

[Huaco]

Yeah, I will see what I can throw together here as far as a step-by-step. However, theoretically, it is nothing more than building 3 controllers in one box.

Yeah, I was pretty green this time last year with electricity. I learned A LOT in the last year. I just know the basics of it. It would be similar to knowing the basics of plumbing... "It flows downhill..." lol

 

[liquiditynerd]

I thought that 3 gang box said Beeer on it, ha! Checking your other thread now.

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco, thanks. I figured as much but it's what you did with the terminal blocks that I was really interested in. Also did you run hot and cold on slave receptacles or did you leave it hot for both as you only need it for single source control.

 

[mrklueber]

I am very interested in this concept. I often brew two ten gallon batches about 1 week apart and therefore I would like to have the ability to control the fermentations at different temperatures using the same fermentation chamber. I am subscribing to this thread now.

 

[Huaco]

Huaco, thanks. I figured as much but it's what you did with the terminal blocks that I was really interested in. Also did you run hot and cold on slave receptacles or did you leave it hot for both as you only need it for single source control.

Each of the three receptacles are isolated and controlled by it's respective controller. I maintained the 2-stage functionality on each receptacle (hot AND cold outlets) so that I could use ANY of the three as the "Master".

I have (2) 8 post terminal blocks. One for HOT and the other for NEUTRAL. One of each is epoxied to the ends of the 3-gang box. JB Weld worked GREAT in this application. I daisy-chained the Neutral and Grounds inside the 3-gang box, then out to the terminal block for the neutral and solder-spliced into the power cord ground for the ground, then covered in shrink wrap.

All the wiring was 14 ga. When using 14 ga. it is an absolute "must" to use the pin terminals for the ends that get attached to the controller. I just could not get a safe, reliable connection made with such thick wire. I need to retro fit 2 other controllers I made too.

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco, did you use a different probe then the one that came with the STC-1000. Also, have you had any issues with the mono plug. I read somewhere that the connect surface area on the plugs are small and tarnish easily and can affect temperature fluctuations. It was suggest to use xlr connectors. What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Huaco]

The mono plugs seem to work just fine right now. They are plated so I don't know how easy they would tarnish.

That said... Yes! By all means, XLR would be a much more sound connection. As would RCA. Right when I finished up on this box, I thought to myself... "you should have used RCA connections"

Yes, I am using the original probes. Inside the box, I am using 22 or 24 ga. wires to go to the sensor inputs from the panel receptacle. I need to calibrate them all. I have some temp differential between them...

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco,
Man you just keep giving me more ideas. So I wanna do the RCA thing but I am not sure the wire on the probe is big enough. Anyone comment on that one. Also wondering how you wire up that whole 8 post terminal deal man!!! I just can't figure it out as my skill with the electrical are nill. Help please!!!! The pics are nice but I can't see the whole setup to get an idea what to do.

 

[BetterSense]

I'm a big fan of RCA plugs/jacks; I use them for all my temp probes. They are cheap, make a good connection, and nearly universal.

 

[Huaco]

The wires would solder onto the RCA posts right? What does the wire size matter?

Those 8 place terminal blocks are just JB welded to the side of the 3-gang box. I feed the hot and neutral from the supply cord to their respective blocks and just attach to the blocks as you would if you were using wire nuts. Hots go TO each controller Neutrals come BACK to the other block. If you take each controller one at a time, it is quite a simple wire job. I have not done anything different from the original wire jobs everybody else is doing. I Power the unit with standard black/white wires. I use blacks to go FROM the "Hot Block" TO the cold-side switch and then on to the cold receptacle. The REDS are done in the same manner but for the Heating Circuit.

 

[mmeadows24]

Well it looks like I will finally have time to do the build this weekend Huaco. Hopefully, last question, did you solder the pin terminal? The pics looks like they were just crimped. Any last minute tips?Lol

 

[Huaco]

Just double crimped...

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco, the build never happened the other week but I have time now. So a silly question, again. Do I use a different wire (i.e. type-thinking a braided type but have no idea) when soldering and wiring the connections inside the box for an rca jack. I bought these http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103224 and putting it in 8 x6 x4 hobby box (single unit) as practice before a 3/1 box. I have already wired up a "simple" box but adding all these little things like lights, a toggle switch, and rca input and rca connection on the temp prob is new to me. Looking at the pics from your 3/1 it is pretty clear you used a different size wire (possibly a different type) for the jack so what's your suggestion for the best approach?
Also, there is no negative on the probe so do I just solder both in the rca cup or what?

 

[Huaco]

Yeah, I had some 22 gauge wire left from my control panel build. All I did was try to match gauge to what the probes wires were. You just don't want a huge resistance change from the probe to the RCA - controller wires. The controller evaluates the temperature based on resistance of the coupled wires in the probe end. If you mess with the resistance too much, it will throw off the reading. That can be adjusted but I would rather not go too crazy with it.
I don't think there are +/- with the probe wires. Just solder them on.

 

[Huaco]

Yeah, I'm really liking it so far. In the future though

Is this comment relative to this thread? I'm just a little lost. What are you referencing?

 

[mmeadows24]

Yeah, I had some 22 gauge wire left from my control panel build. All I did was try to match gauge to what the probes wires were. You just don't want a huge resistance change from the probe to the RCA - controller wires. The controller evaluates the temperature based on resistance of the coupled wires in the probe end. If you mess with the resistance too much, it will throw off the reading. That can be adjusted but I would rather not go too crazy with it.
I don't think there are +/- with the probe wires. Just solder them on.

In the center pin cup? What about the jack? Do I just solder the two wires going to the controller to the center portion of the jack?

 

[Huaco]

Sorry, I can't speak to RCA jacks... sorry. I just haven't used them and don't want to mislead you with ignorance of a product.

 

[user 78027]

In the center pin cup? What about the jack? Do I just solder the two wires going to the controller to the center portion of the jack?

No, there is a hole in the the longer jacket like part that you crimp around the wire. I will take one of mine apart tonight and make an image of it and post it.

 

[user 78027]

Here is an image of the rca jack and plug along with the sensor wired to a plug.

In the image on the top row in the center is the jack, the side that is fixed to the enclosure. One wire is soldered to the center cup and the other wire is soldered to the piece that is sticking out at the bottom of the jack. The piece is not connected to the jack until the bolt that holds it in the enclosure is installed. You can see the nut in the image that is used to hold it in place.

The part on the right side is the plug. It has a long piece that extends below the center cup. One wire is soldered to the center cup and the other wire is soldered to the hole you can see in the long piece. The long piece also wraps around the wire as a strain relief. I added some heat shrink tubing, two pieces to give the sensor wire some size so I had something to crimp the wire to.

The bottom wire is the back side of the sensor plug soldered up so you can see where it is soldered.

 

[user 78027]

Do you have a cold crash method. Do you move the cooling control to the fermenter that you intend to cold crash?

I think I made a mistake with the minimal approach for the wiring on my device. I didn't even consider cold crashing when I built mine. I also have another problem. The orientation of the fermenters in the freezer is 2 rows of 3 column and the controler is 3 rows of 2 columns. I'm strongly considering orienting the controller in the same orientation as the freezer which will make it so much easier to keep track of which brew is in what compartment.

 

[Huaco]

Yeah, the thinking behind my setup is that the COLDEST liquid drives the entire chamber. Each other controller is set to heat above that temp.

 

[user 78027]

So, as the fermenter is done and your ready to cold crash you move the plug to that fermenter and reset its temp and the one where the freezer plug came from?

An alternative is to move the temperature sensor to the fermenter that you want to cold crash and then set the temperatures appropriately.

I'm thinking of implementing the moving of the physical plug, then the freezer doesn't have to be opened to make the change.

 

[Huaco]

I planned to move them from one thermowell to another. The controller needs to stay with it's respective sensor. Notice, I color coded mine red, white, blue... top to bottom. Easy for me to remember... Chest freezer conversions are so freaking efficient, you really don't lose much when you open the hatch unless you have a fan blowing up from the bottom...

 

[user 78027]

Sorry it has taken me so long to figure this out. Once you have them color coded then each color represents a brew in the chest freezer and all i wold have to do is switch the RCA jacks around on the panel and set the temperatures for the controller. The same controller is always the one that controls the freezer, it is just sensing temperature from a different fermentation vessel.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Huaco]

No, you will need to pull them out of the thermowells. Each of these controllers will be calibrated to each of it's respective probes. If you change probes, you will more than likely be reporting a different resistance to the controller, thus throwing the controller off by a degree or two or even more. Take a look at my original pictures. All three of those probes are reading ambient temperatures. They are quite a bit off, prior to calibration.

You "MAY" bee able to just switch the RCA jacks around with minimal change in calibration, but I would test it at fermentation temps first. And test it with a GOOD thermometer / industrial temp meter.

 

[Huaco]

P.S.
Sorry I've been pretty absent on the forums lately. I was laid-off a few weeks ago and just recently started a new job. Been focused elsewhere.

 

[mmeadows24]

Huaco, rough news bro. Good to hear you got a new job though. I appreciate the help you give no matter the time it takes. I have been lagging in my goals for brewing and wine making due to class and work. Hopefully, I will be able to reach them soon. So I totally understand the focus on other things then random thread response.

 

[user 78027]

Huaco, how do you keep your blow off bottles from freezing when you lager? It's good to see your working again. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Huaco]

I lager at about 35*F. I know the alcohol probably lowers the freezing point of the beer, but I don't want to chance it right now... Honestly, I am still learning A LOT about Lagers and am VERY MUCH a rookie.

Just being honest...

 

[Huaco]

P.S. Thanks for the well-wishes on the new job. I actually was offered a MUCH BETTER position with another company since starting the job I referenced previously. THIS JOB ROCKS!