Specialty IPA: Rye IPA Denny Conn's Wry Smile Rye IPA

[Denny]

Hi Denny,

I wanted your opinion on a Red Rye IPA recipe malt bill. I always mash at 148 with my IPA's and add Munich or Vienna for some malt sweetness. I've never brewed with rye before and I don't want it to be overly dry. I'm trying to figure out if I should add about 8% Munich or Vienna. What do you think?

9 1/2 lbs Pale malt (2 row)
2 lbs Rye malt
1 1/4 lbs Victory malt
1 lb Crystal 10
1 lb Cara Pils
1/4 lb Chocolate Wheat malt

Mashed at 148 for 60 minutes

You have a metric buttload (technical term) of crytal malts in there sio it certainly won't be too dry! IMO, lose the carapils and you'll be in better shape. As to adding Munich, my own tastes are that I don't care for it with rye. They kinda seem to clash. But that doesn't necessarily mean you won't like it. It also seems (without running it through software) that 1/4 lb. of chocolate wheat will make it darker than red. But if you've checked that out, ignore me!

 

[ipabrewer77]

Denny,

I cut the carapils to 1/2 lb. I was also considering 3/4 lb melanoiden malt instead of Munich to add to the red. Do you feel the same about it as you do Munich with rye since they both add maltiness? As for the color, I've used 1/4 lb pale chocolate with the same amount of crystal 80 and victory in another red I did. The color was an insane deep red. I figured I'd try this combo as it looked good in beer smith.

 

[Denny]

I haven't tried a rye/melanoidin combo, so I don't know. And you might like the Munich/rye combo. Just becasue i didn't care a lot for it doesn't mean you won't. Sounds like you've had experience with the combo you;re using for color, so ignore me! Keep in mind, though, that the rye itself will add a bit of orange/red color.

 

[brewswellwithothers]

I'm getting ready to make this this weekend, but don't have any Columbus. I have plenty of Cascade and Centennial and Chinook though; would a blend of Chinook and one of the other two play well with this brew?

 

[Denny]

With all due respect, you say you're getting ready to make this, but if you don't have Columbus you won't be making it. Yeah, it would work, but it would be a very different beer. The Columbus character is a lot of that recipe. Maybe you should wait til you have Columbus?

 

[brewswellwithothers]

Yeah I was kinda afraid of that. I may just grab some from the LHBS before making it, was just trying to save a trip through traffic.

 

[ipabrewer77]

Well I'll go ahead and give it a shot and let you know the results, although like you said we may have different taste. I always use about 8-10% Munich, Honey or Vienna in my IPA's and love the malt character they each give. Thanks for the input Denny!

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

It's been a couple years since I've brewed this fine beer so I figured I'd give it a shot for my next brew.

My LHBS doesn't have any fresh Mt. Hood/Hallertauer/Liberty/noble hops/etc. - they're all from 2011 and I want to make sure I get that fresh hoppiness. Don't have time to order online before brew day this weekend.

I've got some very nice 2012 Ahtanum - what are your guys thoughts on subbing that for the Mt. Hood? It has a nice floral + citrus quality.

 

[Denny]

It's been a couple years since I've brewed this fine beer so I figured I'd give it a shot for my next brew.

My LHBS doesn't have any fresh Mt. Hood/Hallertauer/Liberty/noble hops/etc. - they're all from 2011 and I want to make sure I get that fresh hoppiness. Don't have time to order online before brew day this weekend.

I've got some very nice 2012 Ahtanum - what are your guys thoughts on subbing that for the Mt. Hood? It has a nice floral + citrus quality.

I haven't used Ahtanum a lot and never in that recipe. My memory of them is that I wasn't impressed and they were very different that Mt. Hood/Hallertauer. Hop Union compares them to Cascade and Amarillo, so that isn't in the ballpark. Maybe you should wait til you get some Mt. Hood?

 

[mrklueber]

Denny, you state to add Gypsum to the boil kettle to increase the sulfate to accentuate the hops. My water is very hard with 46 ppm of sulfate. Do you think that the gypsum is still needed here? Thanks. Mike

 

[Denny]

Denny, you state to add Gypsum to the boil kettle to increase the sulfate to accentuate the hops. My water is very hard with 46 ppm of sulfate. Do you think that the gypsum is still needed here? Thanks. Mike

My sulfate level is 57ppm and I don't consider that much at all. You want to get to at least 200 ppm. I have one on tap now that I tried 300 ppm. Maybe a bit much, but not bad. Adding the gypsum will accentuate the bitterness and make the finish drier.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I'll have to brew this again. First time came out spectacular, truly the best beer brewed to date. The second time I was at a rolling boil when I realized I had left all my salts out of the mash. I was pissed.

 

[mrklueber]

My sulfate level is 57ppm and I don't consider that much at all. You want to get to at least 200 ppm. I have one on tap now that I tried 300 ppm. Maybe a bit much, but not bad. Adding the gypsum will accentuate the bitterness and make the finish drier.

Thanks Denny. Planning on brewing a ten gallon batch tomorrow.

 

[ipabrewer77]

I haven't tried a rye/melanoidin combo, so I don't know. And you might like the Munich/rye combo. Just becasue i didn't care a lot for it doesn't mean you won't. Sounds like you've had experience with the combo you;re using for color, so ignore me! Keep in mind, though, that the rye itself will add a bit of orange/red color.

So I brewed it and the taste is awesome! I used some chocolate wheat malt which made it more of a brownish orange. I've revised the recipe to give it more of a deep red color. I've read about using Roasted Barley. I used it once in an IPA and it ruined it. I read about either cold steeping or adding when sparging. What's your take on both methods? Here's the revised recipe:

10 lb 2 row
2 lb rye
3/4 lb melanoiden
3/4 lb Crystal 10
1/2 lb Crystal 80
1/4 lb roasted barley

I mash at 148

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

I just brewed my first batch of this today and am really looking forward to tasting it in a few weeks.

 

[DirtyOldDuck]

Kegged this today with a FG of 1.012. Unfortunately, my beer fridge only holds two kegs. It will be a few days before this one goes in, but eventually I will get to taste it.

 

[mrklueber]

Thanks Denny. Planning on brewing a ten gallon batch tomorrow.

Tasted a sample tonight as I was bottling some from the keg. It tastes great. I think we will enjoy this one. Thanks for recipe and advice Denny.

 

[01steve]

i made the extract kit form nb of this. i did it as per the directions aside from a bit more time w/ the columbus dry hop (mis-read directions)-... it finished @ 1.020 (high?), it tastes amazing. i and a few others had it back to back w/ ruthless rye and everyone loved denny's wry over sierra. it did seem quite dark for an ipa but that's typical w/ extract. i will be making this again!

 

[Denny]

1.020 is a bit high but in the ballpark.

 

[Beer-lord]

My all grain version ended high but I've noticed the same thing on a few beers I've done with 1450. However, mine sometimes start higher than the recipe shows.

 

[ipabrewer77]

Hey Denny,

I'm still trying to formulate a recipe that will produce a nice red color. I was curious about Carared. I'd used it a long time ago along with 2 oz of roasted barley 500L and it looked very brown. The brew shop I go to only carries 700L roasted barley so I'm staying away from that. I also am afraid to use too much Carared because I don't like the cloying sweetness of too much crystal malt in an IPA but I've heard it's not as sweet as crystal 20. Here's my recipe:

10 3/4 lbs 2 row
1 1/4 lbs Carared
1 1/4 lbs Melanoiden
1/4 lb Pale Chocolate 250L or 1 oz debittered Carafa 475L

Any suggestions?

 

[Denny]

I'd cut way back on the melanoidin and maybe up the carared to 2 lb. I've found that for some reason it seems more fermentable than a typical crystal malt. You could also use Sinamar for color instead of carafa. I prefer Sinamar because you can add a little, look at the color, and add more til you get what you want.

 

[ipabrewer77]

Ok, thanks for the tip.

 

[coachzbell]

Denny,
I read these posts from beginning to end and I want to thank you for your patience and dedication to help so many people get it right. I am brewing this beer tomorrow (with 1272. Sadly my LHBS doesn't carry 2450.) and am really looking forward to it. I have limited experience with dry-hopping and have heard a lot on Brad Smith's podcast and others that the new thinking is to limit the time for dry hopping (no more than a week, it seems) to avoid vegetal/grassy flavors. Since you haven't waivered from your advice for 10+ days of dry hopping in addition to throwing hops in the keg, could you share your thoughts on this?
Thank you.

 

[Denny]

Well, there's theory and then there's experience. My experience is that there's nothing wrong with dry hopping for a longer period. I typically dry hop in secondary (if I use one) for a couple weeks, then in the keg for months. I have never gotten the supposed grassy/vegetal flavors. I think it's more related to hop variety than length of time. All I can tell you is that if I thought it was a problem I would have stopped doing it hundreds of batches ago and wouldn't still be recommending the practice.

 

[coachzbell]

Thank you! I have only been brewing for about 16 months, and am still sorting out my own philosophy from all the information out there. I am really looking forward to tasting this beer.
Regarding dry hopping, do you always use pellets? Do you always use the same varieties? Are hop particles in the finished product just a way of life for the home brewer? One of my fellow local homebrewers racks his to tertiary to get rid of the hop particles but I was worried he would also leave behind some of the oils he was after in the first place.
Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[Denny]

Thank you! I have only been brewing for about 16 months, and am still sorting out my own philosophy from all the information out there. I am really looking forward to tasting this beer.
Regarding dry hopping, do you always use pellets? Do you always use the same varieties? Are hop particles in the finished product just a way of life for the home brewer? One of my fellow local homebrewers racks his to tertiary to get rid of the hop particles but I was worried he would also leave behind some of the oils he was after in the first place.
Thanks again for taking the time.

I use either pellets or whole hops, whichever is fresher. All that matters is quality, not form. For the Rye IPA I always use Columbus...that's what the recipe calls for so if I use another hop I make a different beer. I made this beer to my wife's tastes so no changes! AAMOF, she likes the hop particles in it and sys it isn't as good after they settle down. They certainly don't bother me enough to go to the hassle or possible problems involved with using a tertiary.

 

[eric19312]

Hi thread and Denny,

Made my first batch of what I am guessing will be many of this tasty recipe. Was very pleased with the results and decided to enter into a homebrew competition this weekend. Was my first BJCP scored competition and I was stumped by what category to put this into.

Ended up going 14 B, American IPA and didn't place. Scored a 30.5 total...

Comments were:
"Nice beer thats got some nice flavors. The maltiness and full/sweet finish detracts from the beer a bit (hops up front with a supported maltiness) can check mash temps or yeast health and pitching rates to dry the maltiness out more. Nice job though."
"Liked it but may have too high caramel notes for mixture of hops designed for this IPA"

Now I brewed with house US-05, 3rd generation, fermented at 65, OG 1.069, FG 1.010 so I don't think the attenuation was really an issue. Am sure getting the right yeast will further improve flavors.

So my questions are:
(1) what category should I have entered this into?
(2) are the comments regarding maltiness and caramel notes likely to be due to having entered into wrong category or indicative of something wrong with my process?

 

[Denny]

1.) specialty...the rye puts it out of style for an IPA
2.) hard to say.....maybe you needed more sulfate on your water

 

[eric19312]

Thanks Denny!

I was lucky enough to get the show's big winner and local favorite Bobby R. to taste the beer after the judging. He liked the beer and suggested entering it as a 6D American Wheat or Rye Hybrid. But looking at the guidelines this beer is over spec on both IBUs and gravity so I guess only fits 23A.

Will review thread and re-check water chemistry. I went with about 200ppm sulfate, 100ppm calcium, 75ppm chloride...

Love the beer anyway as is. Might be best suited for personal consumption and entering into some of the non-style guide based competitions in my area.

Another thought...I do see how the recipe could be adjusted down to fit into the broad characteristics of 6D...lower OG to 1.050 by reducing malts, swap caramel 20 for the caramel 60 to lighten the color, and then move hops around to get IBUs down to about 30...

Am thinking of the following hop schedule would be close to 30 IBU
0.5 oz Mount Hood 4.5 AA FWH
0.375 oz Columbus 13.9 AA 60 min
0.5 oz Mount Hood 4.5 AA 15 min
1.0 oz Mount Hood 4.5 AA turn-off
20 min hop stand at 180F after turn off
1.0 oz Columbus DH

Anybody tried something like this?

 

[Denny]

Sounds like too much chloride. When you go that high on sulfate, try to keep chloride under 50.

 

[thadius856]

Brewing this today. Don't have any additives that'll get my sulfates up (that I know of), so I'll just have to brew without. My water comes in at 65 ppm Sulfate and a total hardness of 14 grains/gal or 240 ppm (CACO3).

Has made good beer so far. We'll see how it went in a few weeks.

 

[Denny]

Your sulfate is just about the same as mine. Without adding more the hop bitterness and perception of dryness might be a bit lacking, but you'll be in the ballpark.

 

[sbaffo]

wrong post

 

[doublebogey10]

Denny,


Out of curiosity, how many different types of yeast have you made this recipe with? Any that just came out bad?

 

[Denny]

Denny,


Out of curiosity, how many different types of yeast have you made this recipe with? Any that just came out bad?

As far as I can recall, I've only used 1056, 1272, 1450, and US-05. All of those worked well, although I preferred some to others. I've tasted versions made with various British yeasts and didn't care for them at all. For my tastes, it needs to have a yeast that doesn't contribute much, if any, flavor of its own.

 

[doublebogey10]

As far as I can recall, I've only used 1056, 1272, 1450, and US-05. All of those worked well, although I preferred some to others. I've tasted versions made with various British yeasts and didn't care for them at all. For my tastes, it needs to have a yeast that doesn't contribute much, if any, flavor of its own.

Interesting. Thanks!

 

[wookiemofo]

Quick question, what will the impact on this beer be with an OG of 1.058? My buddy and I split a 10 gallon batch this weekend, only to realize 32 pounds of grain won't fit in a 10 gallon cooler! My water volumes were all spot on, which is interesting because it was raining out (usually get less boil off).

Anyway, we mashed 2 separate times simultaneously then combined the worts and boiled away. Only thing I can think of is that my thermometer may have been off and we actually mashed a little lower.

Anyway, wondering what the effects are. Less malty therefore less body?

 

[wookiemofo]

A buddy is suggesting i could add a pound or two of honey to jack up the abv back to where it's supposed to be. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Clifton]

Thoughts on that...... DON'T DO IT. I came up a little short when I brewed it. I added the proper amount of DME and ended up with a fine beer.