Pumpkin Saison Grain Bill Help

[BGBC]

I'm planning to brew a pumpkin saison soon and am looking for some thoughts on the grain bill. The percentages are just for the grain, by weight. I'll also be adding pumpkin to the boil, probably the equivalent of 3- or 4-15 oz cans of Libby's.

75% 2-row
9% Munich
4% Crystal 60L
4% Biscuit
4% Flaked Wheat
4% Flaked Rye

Estimated OG from the grain bill above is ~1.060, plus 15-20 points from the pumpkin (based on other recipes I've seen around). SRM ~10 (not sure what, if any, color the pumpkin will contribute).

Planning to use 3711 since I have some in the fridge that I saved from the starter from a batch of the Cottage House Saison from this site (which I'd highly recommend). Hops and spice additions TBD, just trying to nail down the grain bill first.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.

 

[BGBC]

Bump. Any thoughts?

 

[chuckstout]

85% pilsner
10% munich
5% Crystal
BP or RB for color less than 1%

Edit: The reason is your brewing a Saison with pumpkin. I think this would make a better base saison to add pumpkin and spices. If you want more bready/malty character increase the munich up to 20% or add 10% vienna

Also you can find packaged pumpkin seeds in your local store, but its a little more difficult to find them unsalted. Pumpkin beers are definatly my favorite seasonal.

 

[BGBC]

Thanks for the edited description.

I'm ok dropping the wheat, but I think I'd like to keep the rye in there. I haven't used Biscuit before, but I saw a couple other pumpkin beer recipes that used it for the bready/pie crust flavors. Do you think the Munich/Crystal combo alone would be better?

 

[chuckstout]

I think the munich well add a lot of bready character. I just think using biscuit just be lost behind everything else.

74% Pilsner
10% Munich
10% Flaked Rye
5% C60
1% Roasted Barley

 

[Beernik]

I did:
77% Pilsen
7% Wheat
4% Buscuit
4% 20L Crystal
8% Candi Sugar
About 3.6lbs of canned pumpkin

OG 1.070
FG 1.011
ABV 7.7%
IBUs 29

 

[BGBC]

Ok, I think I'm going with the following, hopefully headed to the LHBS tomorrow:
38% Pilsen
37% 2-row
10% Munich
10% Flaked Rye
5% Crystal 60

 

[SavoryChef]

I would mash the pumpkin and not boil it.

 

[TNGabe]

I would mash the pumpkin and not boil it.

I was thinking the same thing, but my only reasoning is that the Bruery does it that way. Do you have a better reason?

 

[SavoryChef]

I've boiled it and it ends up like pumpkin soup. I guess if you have a conical you could dumb the pumpkin trub after a couple hours. Half my bucket was a thick mess.

 

[Beernik]

+1 on mashing it.

I've seen pictures where the pumpkin doesn't settle out well. It formed more of a thick sludge blanket on the bottom of a carboy. Bananas have the same problem.

If you want to boil it, I'd recommend putting it in a mesh bag to keep the pulp from making its way into the fermentor.

 

[SavoryChef]

And use rice hulls

 

[BGBC]

I do BIAB, so I'll plan to add the pumpkin to the mash in the bag. Planning to use canned pumpkin and maybe some roasted fresh pumpkin I have in the freezer from last fall.

 

[TNGabe]

I do BIAB, so I'll plan to add the pumpkin to the mash in the bag. Planning to use canned pumpkin and maybe some roasted fresh pumpkin I have in the freezer from last fall.

Just for random information's sake, canned pumpkin isn't pumpkin. It's Dickinson squash, similar to butternut.

 

[harry_the_face]

I made a pumpkin ale last fall that turned out great! I put 1 can of lobbyists pumpkin puree in the boil and it turned out great. The pulp settled to the bottom with the yeast by the end of primary. The layer was a bit thicker but did not effect anything.

The second batch I figure I would try doing it in the mash and add a bit more pumpkin flavor by using a second can. BIG Mistake! Talk about stuck sparge. It took me an hour + to get the wort out and in the end the beer tasted like crap. The only batch that I have thrown away.

If you are going to do it in mash and using that much pumpkin you need like 3-5 lbs of rice hulls, no kidding.

Another word of caution, go easy on the spices. Cinnamon, nutmeg and clove is what I used and it is very strong. I think I used 1 teaspoon for a 5 gal batch and it was too much.

 

[BGBC]

Just for random information's sake, canned pumpkin isn't pumpkin. It's Dickinson squash, similar to butternut.

Interesting, didn't realize that. Confirmed on the Libby's website though. Ah well, like I said I do still have some roasted sugar pumpkin in the freezer from last fall. Might use both, or some of each.

 

[Poobah58]

Looks like mine...Should be a good one!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f76/stingy-jack-pumpkin-saison-275598/

 

[BGBC]

Looks like mine...Should be a good one!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f76/stingy-jack-pumpkin-saison-275598/

Yep, should give credit where credit is due. Your recipe was one of my inspirations. I did end up throwing in <1% roasted barley too.

 

[BGBC]

Just wanted to close this out. I tasted the first bottle last night and it was pretty good at 3 weeks bottled. I made a spice tea with whole spices (cinnamon sticks, fresh ginger, cloves, and cracked nutmeg) and added to taste at bottling. You can taste the cinnamon mostly, but it's not overpowering.

The color on the brew is perfect, just what I was going for. Glad I added the little bit of roasted barley in there.

If I brew this again, I'd try a different yeast, as the 3711 threw a lot of pepper flavors that still dominate the other spice additions. Or maybe it's just too much with the spice from the rye as well.

 

[Beernik]

With mine, the cinnimon dominates the spices at first. But it mellowed with time.

I don't remember getting a lot pepper with White Labs 566. Rye always seems to me to be more spicy than peppery.

What hops did you use?

 

[BGBC]

I don't remember getting a lot pepper with White Labs 566. Rye always seems to me to be more spicy than peppery.

What hops did you use?

I guess I'm not that familiar with rye yet. I should try some more commercial examples...

Hopped with UK First Gold to 20 IBU (60min & 10min additions). 1.060 SG, 1.004 OG

 

[ScottRMitch]

With 3711 the fermentation temperature will determine the amount of that pepper flavor you get. Start your fermentation lower next time, like 65, and let it rise by 2 degrees every day until you reach 75 then just let it cruise and do whatever it wants.

 

[BGBC]

With 3711 the fermentation temperature will determine the amount of that pepper flavor you get. Start your fermentation lower next time, like 65, and let it rise by 2 degrees every day until you reach 75 then just let it cruise and do whatever it wants.

Hm, I guess that might be it. I haven't used any temp control with 3711 in the past. Once we move, first order of business will be getting a temp controlled fermentation chamber set up. I've been travelling every week for work for the last few months, so I haven't been around to switch out water bottles in a swamp cooler.

 

[bolus14]

Just for random information's sake, canned pumpkin isn't pumpkin. It's Dickinson squash, similar to butternut.

A local brewery where I live, Horseheads Brewing, uses only Libby's canned Pumpkin in their Pumpkin Ale and most people tend to say it's one of the better Pumpkin beers they've had. The biggest complaint most have is that it doesn't have the graham cracker taste that Southern Tier's Pumking has.

Like someone else mentioned, the key is in the spices, this is where head brewers start withholding info on their recipes when it comes to Pumpkin Ale's. Most will tell you cinnamon, nutmeg, and either clove or all spice, but they won't tell how much of each.

For most of us though canned Pumpkin is the only option unless you want to wait until late Sept or early Oct to get pumpkins, or you have to know a farmer. And, I live in upstate NY so lots of farms around.

 

[jekeane]

I used WL 565 for a sweet potato Saison that i mashed with 10 lbs of roasted sweet potato. I went for 65 to 72 over a week then moved it inside when it acclimated to room temperature 76ish by the fermometer. I feel like I got a lot of raisiny prune apricot fruits and no spicy notes that came through the pumpkin pie type spices I used.


Has anyone tried to mash in a box of graham crackers for a crust flavor? I have heard of people use boxed cereal with good results.