11-11-11 Old Ale Swap and Critique Thread

[smokinghole]

smokinghole's Pumpkin Ale

Aroma - Fruity esters hit first backed by thick, sweet malt. Then the spices come through, gentle but noticeable.

Appearance - Upon opening I knew I would have to pour carefully and I still had trouble getting it into the glass. Poured with a voluminous eggshell foam with a very fluffy texture. Color of the beer is a really nice dark amber, with a slight haze and countless streams of bubbles rising through.

Flavor - Very unique flavor. Sweet and slightly tart, with a strong fruity character. The fruity tartness continues into the finish where grainy, malt and dark fruit (raisins, underripe plums) linger. The spices are there in the aftertaste too, with no single spice sticking out and more of a general pumpkin spice character dominating. Bitterness is moderate, with a slightly tingling flavor mid to back palate.

Mouthfeel - Moderate body and high carbonation work well for this beer. I was a bit worried about the carbonation when I opened the bottle and when I was pouring, but it doesn't come off as harsh in this beer. The mouthfeel is nicely round and a bit slick. Slightly warming from the alchol.

Overall - Not what I was expecting, but very good. This is a very fruity beer! The fruity esters and dark fruit malt character really dominate this beer for me. The spices end up playing second fiddle. I'm not really pulling out any pumpkin character in the beer apart from maybe the bit of roundness and slickness in the mouthfeel. I wouldn't guess that this beer was the 9.something % you said. It hides it very well. Thanks for sending it!

That beer was somewhat of an accident. I meant to split the batch between WLP510 and WLP028. Well my 510 didn't take off so I ended up using ECY13 instead. Then the WLP028 got replaced by a tube of WLP099 that I grabbed by accident. I didn't realize until after I pitched the starters. That damn 099 has done this to me before where I thought it was done fermenting, but then it knocked a couple more points off in the bottle. I think it'd be better with lower carbonation but whatever I guess I gots to deal. Sure I could vent the bottles for a while to decrease the pressure. I have plenty of caps and half of it in fliptops.

The beer has big time flavor difference between the two yeasts though. There are slight flavor similarities but different aspects are amplified in one vs the other. I thought the Belgian version chewed up the spicing flavor which was more noticeable in the 099 version.

 

[KingBrianI]

AnOldUR's 11-11-11

Aroma - Very familiar. That same brett character that all of our beers have is again present, though in this case the pie cherries have a bit of company from a bit of funk. I'm also getting some toasted coconut (probably from the oak?). The pie cherry aroma isn't as sharp in this beer and there is a sweetness from the malt accompanying it giving the aroma a very pleasant character. There are aromas playing around with the toasted coconut that are hard to put a finger on. Maybe a bit of molasses and some of the malt breadiness. They are all blending together making it hard to pull each out. Overall a very nice aroma.

Appearance - Poured much darker than the other 11-11-11s I've had. It's an almost opaque brown in my fat glass, but the edges show through with a deep amber. The head was an attractive tan, 1-finger, that slowly settled to a thin cap on the top of the beer.

Flavor - Wow, it doesn't dissapoint. Everything I was getting in the aroma is here in the flavor, plus a thick malt backbone that is incredibly nice. My first impression is that you need to do this recipe exactly the same again but use a nice british yeast and no brett. The brett character is nice, but the underlying beer and malt character is so good that it deserves to stand out. That's not to say that it isn't good with the brett. It is an "A" beer with the brett, but I feel like it could be "A+" without. The malt is bready and caramelly and most importantly, very "full". It doesn't come off as sweet, but that malt really puts on a show. It's rich and bold, but still very drinkable. Bitterness is low and at the perfect level to let the malt shine without overpowering. Finish is very clean with a touch of tartness. The low bitterness lingers a bit, mingling with the toasty malt aftertaste.

Mouthfeel - Great mouthfeel, with a nice thick body, great creaminess, and a perfect amount of low carbonation.

Overall - My favorite 11-11-11 so far. This is a very well-done beer. Easily the most drinkable of those I've tried while having the most malt flavor. I really like this beer, if you couldn't tell. Between the really chewy malt flavor and thick, creamy body, this beer has everything anyone could want in an old ale. The brett character is lighter in this beer than the others I've tried, but still takes some of the spotlight off the malt. I really think you should make this beer again with a different yeast strain, like I said in the flavor section. This beer is really good, but I think with a different yeast it could be really, really good. That's just personal preference though. Thanks again for sending along a special shipment for me! I hope you can ignore whatever BS you encountered and get back on the boards soon!

 

[smokinghole]

JMO88's Ramble on Rose

Aroma - Smells sort of like a cherry icee you'd get that sits next to the coke icees. I can semll some belgian esters hiding behind the cherry.

Appearance - Brilliantly clear with a wonderful red hue. Poured with a good 2-3 finger head that lasted for about a minute and a half. It has since retreated to a thin layer of bubbles supported by the small nucleation site in the Rodenbach glass I'm using.

Flavor - Tart cherry with a toasted marshmallow type flavor. It is very pleasant. It has hints of the cherry icee flavor but tastes more natural.

Mouthfeel - light to medium, it is on the drier side. I think its about perfect. I have a hard time not gulping the beer down.

Overall - I love this beer. It's something I could drink and I bet it's something my wife would even enjoy. When she gets done with her bad mood maybe I'll give her a sip to see what she thinks. Thanks for sending the recipe I'll have to check it out and maybe do my own twist on it.
__________________

 

[jmo88]

Thanks smokinghole. I'm not sure what I'd change. Though I medalled with this beer, the judges were loving the aroma but not as impressed with the way the flavor didn't scream cherry. I disagree though. I like beer first, fruit later– not the other way around.

What would you change or tweak?

 

[smokinghole]

Not sure. My own twists usually occur because I use what I have on hand, so my twists would be substitutions for hops and such. I might go with sour pie cherries instead of bing cherries (next spring/summer). Other than that I wouldn't change anything. Might use a little vienna instead of all pils.

And I'm with you I like a fruited beer not a beered fruit beverage. I've found that at comps judges want extreme everything. Extreme phenolics for belgians, extreme dryness for saison (along with dry mouth feel), intense fruit, and the most intense bitterness/hop aroma in IPAs. It's not about balance it's about standing out.

 

[KingBrianI]

Drinking one of my 11-11-11s right now. After having so many others, I had forgotten what mine tasted like exactly. Not bad, better than I remember. While dryer than some of the others I've tried, it is still pretty malty and has really good flavor. It takes a bit more searching to find the malt flavors, but they're there. It makes me feel better about the beer than I did after drinking others.

 

[jmo88]

MarsColonist's Dark Strong:

Aroma: Chocolate cheese cake with plum sauce. A few weeks ago my wife made a dessert that smelled just like this, and was the aforementioned cheesecake. Tart raspberries begin to reveal themselves through the malt. Graham crackers. Really fun to just smell this beer.

Appearance- Poured a dark hazy red, just perfect for the style. One finger head that fell in about 30 seconds to a small ring.

Flavor- Delicious sweet malt finishing with raisin. Much of the fruit, tart, and graham character isn't coming through in the flavor. This makes for a nice multi-dimensional beer. I'm not very convinced of its Belgian character though. The yeast isn't as phenolic as I anticipated. Much of the aroma and flavor is malt driven instead of yeast influenced. Nice low bitterness. The IBU's are perfect.

Mouthfeel- medium mouthfeel, medium carbonation.

Overall- A really solid beer. I feel this is almost a combination of many strong ale styles. It has a nice dried fruit character from the malt expected of the Belgian style, but also has a clean yeast character. The richness of the malt suggests a high percentage of base malt rather than a decent portion of simple sugars. Is that correct or is it the age of the beer that's leading me that way?

 

[MarsColonist]

Its the New world Westy clone from HBT with 3.5# of homemade dark candi. 1st BSD at DixieCup this year and got me in the MCAB.

 

[MarsColonist]

MarsColonist's 810 Dry stout

O- I went in to this beer with expectations, sorry I couldn't help it Your other stout with wlp005 was AMAZING but I feel this yeast didn't work for this beer. I assume the yeast is the only difference? .... Thanks for sending this beer. I really enjoy experiencing the differences the yeasts make!

Ah.... its 410, Belgian Wit II yeast, not SanFran (which I use a lot)!
I actually preferred this stout over the other (liked them both!).. I thought it was a cleaner yeast profile, but yes, it was the same beer with different yeasts, hopefully carbed the same. I make 10gallons and tend to do a lot of yeast experiments.

I need to get on the ball doing reviews... I took notes on one of CA's beers (dont remember off the top of my head which it was; dont know if I can find my notes), but sampled a few (CA's torpedo, and strat's bock) during my weekly beer gathering sessions, but was too preoccupied with the guests to do a formal review.. (man, that bock was really nice strat_thru_marshall.. superb aroma, body a little light, but nice!) I vow to do a good review of the rest! Ill do all 11-11-11's I have at the same time (mine+3), but source hidden by the GF to give a objective breakdown.

 

[KingBrianI]

jmo88's Ramble on Rose

Aroma - Very low aroma. A touch of soapy hops and maybe a bit of fruit coming through but the esters and phenols I expect from a saison are missing. Once I drank the beer down a little I was able to swish it around the glass and the aromas started appearing. The saison yeast character became more pronounced.

Appearance - Poured a striking pinkish-orangish-red color. Very clear except for a fine "dust" floating around that is hardly noticeable. A nice rocky head popped up but quickly faded.

Flavor - Flavor is much more like a saison. Spicy phenols and slightly sweet cherries and pilsner malt show up front with the cherries becoming rounder and fuller mid-palate and finishing dry and fruity. Strong pilsner malt aftertaste is pleasant. I think I remember reading that this beer was oaked but I'm not getting much of that character. There might be a slight mustiness in the background I sometimes associate with oak. A quickly passing impression somewhere in the aftertaste could be oak as well. As it warms, finish is less dry and a cherry syrup flavor comes out.

Mouthfeel - Moderate-light body and moderate carbonation are nice in this beer. No tannins detected from the oak. Very smooth.

Overall - Very nice beer! The color was great, added another dimension to the beer. I didn't get much oak character but that was ok. I thought the beer was good without it. The yeast character was somewhat subdued for a saison. But again, I didn't mind the subtleness of the yeast. It helped the pilsner malt and the cherries shine through. I'm not usually a fruit beer kind of guy, but I really liked this beer. It's very easy to drink and I tore right through it before I knew it. Good flavor from the malt and cherries but the dryness and slight cherry tartness keeps it refreshing and keeps me going back for another sip. Nice job!

 

[jmo88]

Damn, that's a beautiful picture. Maybe I should send you more of my beer just so you can photograph it.

Thanks for the review!

 

[KingBrianI]

Damn, that's a beautiful picture. Maybe I should send you more of my beer just so you can photograph it.

Thanks for the review!

Deal!

 

[smokinghole]

King Brian's Holiday Spiced Ale

Aroma - When I opened it I smelled candied fruits like you would have in a fruit cake, molasses, and spiced plums. It smelled slightly like spiced rum

Appearance - Deep dark brown. When poured there was little to no head but I didn't pour very vigorous.

Flavor - I love it. I am picking up sweet spiced rum notes, nutmeg maybe, and maybe a very slight orange peel. It reminds me of a rum soaked bready dessert. I don't know what the abv is but it was very drinkable for me. This beer had no hot alcohol burn but I could tell after i was done drinking it, this wasn't a session ale.

Mouthfeel - I would say damn near perfect. It is balanced by the spices and the residual sweetness in the beer. I really like this beer.

Overall - Awesome I would drink more of these if I had them. In fact would you share the recipe with me? Very very good spiced ale because the spicing is on the reserved side of things which how they should be. I hate spiced beers that are spice bombs, and this certainly is not a spice bomb.

 

[KingBrianI]

I'm glad you liked it! It was kind of a kitchen sink beer I brewed to use up leftover grains back in 09. Here is the recipe:

5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 27.87 %
2.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 13.94 %
2.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.94 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 11.15 %
1.00 lb Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.57 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2.79 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -extra dark (150.0 SRM) Grain 2.79 %
0.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) US (1.0 SRM) Grain 2.79 %
0.50 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 2.79 %
0.44 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2.45 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
0.25 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 1.39 %
1.00 oz Perle [8.20 %] (90 min) Hops 26.0 IBU
0.80 oz Northern Brewer [10.50 %] (20 min) Hops 15.1 IBU
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.8 IBU
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.20 oz Northern Brewer [10.50 %] (0 min) Hops -

I added a quart of homemade dark amber candi syrup with 30 minutes left.

0.5 t. cinnamon 5 min
0.25 t. allspice 5 min
0.125 t. nutmeg 5 min
0.125 t. cloves 5 min

zest of 4 clementines and the peel of one of those 5 min.
1.5 oz. fresh grated ginger 5 min.

I also add half an oz of medium toast hungarian oak cubes that had been soaked in black rum and an equal amount of spices as added to the boil to secondary. The rum and spices went in as well. I've been nursing this beer but I think it actually peaked last year. The last bottle I had of it a couple weeks ago had some signs of oxidation starting to come through.

 

[DMartin]

Is there a 12-12-12 being set up anywhere? I want in!

 

[smokinghole]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/12-12-12-wee-heavy-recipe-formulation-271379/

 

[DMartin]

found it and replied to it. thanks, I should have hit the search button before asking...

 

[smokinghole]

Well guys I'm drinking a 11-11-11 right now and I tossed some of the fermenting wort from my 12-12-12 at 1.052 and goddamn this is a good mix. The caramel sweetness from the wee heavy and the old ale flavors are sublime.

 

[CA-LT1]

Just had strat_thru_marshall's Northern English Brown:

Poured dark red/brown, one finger head that thinned quickly. When held to light, I could tell it was crystal clear. Slightly fruity aroma. a little more bitter then I was expecting, light mouthfeel, toasty aftertaste with a hint of coffee.

I'm curious, what yeast did you use?

 

[CA-LT1]

And had strat_thru_marshall's Traditional Bock:

First off, I notice this one isn't in your recipe list. Would you mind sharing it?

Poured dark cherry red, thin head. Aroma of blackberry and cherry, and something a little earthy. Man, this tastes like carbonated cherry juice! But not too sweet, big mouthfeel, just a hint of bitterness in the aftertaste. I also got a doughy chewiness in the backside too.

Wow!

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Just had strat_thru_marshall's Northern English Brown:

Poured dark red/brown, one finger head that thinned quickly. When held to light, I could tell it was crystal clear. Slightly fruity aroma. a little more bitter then I was expecting, light mouthfeel, toasty aftertaste with a hint of coffee.

I'm curious, what yeast did you use?

I used 005, British Ale on that one. I like the slight mineral-y ester it puts off. It came out a little too roasty for the style, and therefore didn't place in the competitions I entered it into. I still think it tastes pretty good though.

And had strat_thru_marshall's Traditional Bock:

First off, I notice this one isn't in your recipe list. Would you mind sharing it?

Poured dark cherry red, thin head. Aroma of blackberry and cherry, and something a little earthy. Man, this tastes like carbonated cherry juice! But not too sweet, big mouthfeel, just a hint of bitterness in the aftertaste. I also got a doughy chewiness in the backside too.

Wow!

Thanks, glad you liked it.

Simple recipe, 90% Munich I, 7% Caramunich I, 3% Carafa Special I. All Weyermann malts. My notes indicate that I did a single infusion mash at 155F.

Hallertau Mittelfruh to 25 IBU, then finish with just a touch of Mittelfruh at the end of the boil (7 grams for 6 gallons). 60 minute boil.

This starts at 1.068 and finishes around 1.019. I used WLP830 that I had stepped up off of a tiny "lite" lager, then to a Pilsner, then to the bock. Fermented at 50F for two weeks, then lagered for a couple months at 32.

I cant remember if I filtered this one or not. It's highly possible though.

 

[KingBrianI]

jmo88's 11-11-11

Aroma - Familiar brett notes with the addition of dill pickles and smoky-wood. The pie cherry notes from the brett are mixing with the pickle smell to give a somewhat tart aroma.

Appearance - Poured a clear toffee-amber with a creamy, off-white head.

Flavor - Dryish, but packed with flavor. I'm getting lots of smoke up front. Creamy malt flavors follow through accompanied by a touch of malt sweetness and only a touch of tartness. Finish is dry and a bit chalky.

Mouthfeel - Full and creamy mouthfeel with just the right amount of low carbonation. There is a bit of astringency in the finish that while not unpleasant, does take away from the beer somewhat.

Overall - A good beer, but not my favorite among the 11-11-11s I've tried. The chalky, astringent finish was a distraction. I'm not sure where it comes from, but it may be connected to the smokiness I was getting. Definitely not a bad beer though, and plenty complex. I'm sure some people would find the characters I mentioned favorable in that they increase the complexity and overall volume of flavor of the beer.

 

[CA-LT1]

Alright, so I had smokinghole's Pumpkin ale:

So I'm not really all that familiar with the english yeasts, but this one really has some esters (I think, unless it's the spices I'm picking up). I can't quite put my finger on it, but the aroma has a plasticky (is that called phenolic?), and yet earthy note, and I love it!

Full bodied, medium bitterness up front, spicy sweetness after. Oh, and the carb level was good.

Nice, so how was the pumpkin added, and what spices did you use?

 

[smokinghole]

You guys are sure nice saying the carb level was nice. I was not happy with it so I popped the top of my remaining bottles and recapped them. Now it's better. The pumpkin was mashed, and the spicing was only nutmeg and cinnamon. I put 5-6 whole cinnamon sticks and maybe 1/2 teaspoon of nutmeg in the last 10 min of the boil. The yeast was a complete accident. I wanted to use WLP028 but grabbed and grew a starter with wlp099. Didn't realize it until I had pitched the starter. If you never used it the 099 seems to be done but keeps working for a long time and that happened with this beer. I bottled it for like 2.3 volumes of CO2 and it came up more than that for sure.

 

[CA-LT1]

Getting around to drinking more beers

MarsColonist's Dry stout w/ WLP005
Aroma of a typical stout, some fruitiness. Thin head, faded to a ring around the glass.
Taste was very refreshing, maybe cuz I just got off work, but it was easy drinking. Light body, but sweeter then I would have expected. Not mush in the aftertaste, it faded quickly. Nothing seemed off, nice one, I could drink a lot of that.

Dry stout w/ WLP810
Ok, was it 810, which is the San Francisco hybrid lager strain, or the 410 Belgian?
Either way, same head as the british batch. The aroma was very muted, I can smell beer, but barely. Rich, creamy taste, much fuller body, which I didn't expect for a dry stout. The roastyness seemed to come through more on this one. Some lingering bitterness. what a contrast to the first one.

 

[MarsColonist]

410 Wit, not 810 San Fran; same wort, different yeast. same temp. Oh, and the BSD that I sent to some of you got a 3rd at 2011 MCAB.

 

[smokinghole]

Anyone still have some left of their old ale? I had one last week and it has a pronounced cherry flavor but it is starting to get a bit estery if i drink it at what I consider appropriate temps. I really enjoy blending it with some fresh beer like a pale ale or a bitter. Th last few bottles I popped had some drank unbranded just to see how it is, then the rest of the bottle I drank blended into other beer.

How's everyone else doing if you still have some?

 

[AnOldUR]

That's a good question. Got three gallons bulk aging in a topped of small carboy in the basement. Should think about kegging and then bottling. Naaah . . . five years sounds about right. :cross:

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

I have 3 bottles left, opened one in December. I agree the Cherry notes have increased but other than that it tasted very close to the same 2 years ago. This has aged very well.

 

[orangehero]

I really like this recipe. In my opinion oaking it is important for aging. My oaked batch has a really nice roundness and depth compared with the non-oaked.

 

[smokinghole]

I want to try something similar again but instead of 9097 I want to try and see if I can find a couple bottles of George Gale's Prize Old Ale and and see other is anything living in bottle from the 2000s. If i get something I will use that in place of the wyeast two yeast culture in hopes of a more interesting and complex beer.

 

[MDVDuber]

I have some left. It wasn't ready for the trade and frankly I thought it tasted like a horses ass (ok what I imagine a horses ass tastes like), but I popped one this weekend and I've got to say its almost enjoyable now. Maybe I should start drinking the case and a half that's been taking up space in the basement since 2011....