Frobozz's Magic (Electric) Brewery

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

At long last, after 3 years of interference from real life, the Brewing space is done! Inaugural brew was just completed.

What follows is my build thread. It will cover the room construction for now, with my brewing rig coming later - my rig is currently 30 amp, but eventually I'll upgrade it all to 50 amp. Funding for that is delayed, since the room construction took up the budget for now! I did plan for it, so the 240V circuit for the rig is 6 gauge.

Some special thanks to the following HBT members for their help and inspiration along the way:

• @BrunDog for putting up with endless questions, BruControl, and his 2V setup.
• @augiedoggy for his ideas on long RIMS heating elements.
• @highland_brewer for all the construction videos of your basement brewery (you are directly responsible for the floor drain!)

The Brewing space is built into the back corner of my barn (no basements where I live - water table is too high). The barn also stores my camper, so I used the 50 amp circuit to cover both the RV and the brew room. Plumbing is also set up for the camper.

Attached are the plans showing the framing, plumbing, and electrical - I used these to get the permits. Photos of construction to follow.

 

[mongoose33]

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Here's the initial insulation work along the exterior walls. I used a simple foam board behind the Tyvek to fill in the space between the metal exterior of the barn and where the internal framing will go.

Next, the internal framing:

Insulation was installed in the framing; no pictures of that unfortunately. Same applies to the rough plumbing and electrical. One of those "real life interference issues" was a hard drive crash and loss of some pictures.

Drywall:

Edit: This enough pictures for you, @mongoose33 ?

 

[mongoose33]

Here's the initial insulation work along the exterior walls. I used a simple foam board behind the Tyvek to fill in the space between the metal exterior of the barn and where the internal framing will go.

Next, the internal framing:

Insulation was installed in the framing; no pictures of that unfortunately. One of those "real life interference issues" was a hard drive crash and loss of some pictures.

Drywall:

Edit: This enough pictures for you, @mongoose33 ?

Of course not. That could be any place--you might even have cribbed those from google images. I don't see any brewing equipment or anything like that.

More, or you're just making all this up.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Painting; made a deal with the wife: she could pick the color if she did all the painting. Surprisingly, it worked!

Floor drain install. It WAS going to be a simple round floor drain, then I watched @highland_brewer 's video on his floor drain, and I was cutting out the concrete...

Gonna need a little bigger outlet cover for that 50 amp service...it's called a Midway size, for those whose drywall skills match mine.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Floor coating. I had this done professionally - I've done epoxy coatings in previous homes, but have never been happy with the results. This was done in a day, cured for walking on in 24 hrs.

Rough plumbing for the bathroom; water heater is an Ecosmart 8kw on-demand water heater. I considered a tank, but a tankless seemed to make more sense based on how I would be using the room. 40 amp feed for that; good thing I have a 100 amp feed to the barn!

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Finished room before I moved all the brewing stuff in:

\

That's the construction so far. Pictures of the room with all my junk in it will come shortly. I need to organize things a little better, but hey - after 3 years of working on this, it sure felt good to get that first brew session in!

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Here's the electrical panel for the barn. The 30 amp GFCI breaker is going to be eventually replaced with a 50 amp one once I convert the rig. For now, my camper is limited to 30 amp as well, since they are both on the same circuit. Not a huge deal, since it's 30 amp 240V. Still plenty of power to run the camper inside the barn. Can't brew and run the RV at the same time, but that would have been the case anyway with the 100 amp feed. 40 amp is for the water heater, with the rest being the 120v circuits.

Since @mongoose33 wants to see some equipment...

The chest freezer has a Northern English Brown ale fermenting in it. Temperatures around here are dropping into the 30's, so I've got an electric heat wrap inside and controlling the temperature around 65F.

That's it so far. Next steps in the upgrade process:

• Get a Steamslayer from @Bobby_M at brewhardware.com. This is a must, since i didn't build in any ventilation other than the bathroom vent fan. I had planned to do this right after @BrunDog posted about it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Something else for the Christmas list...
• Mount the wireless access point up above the entrance door so it's out of the way.
• Converting the rig to 50amp, BruControl, and 2 Vessels vs. 3.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about the room and setup. I got so much help and inspiration along the way from other people's threads and I want to return the favor!

 

[kevin58]

Awesome!

 

[mongoose33]

Here's the electrical panel for the barn. The 30 amp GFCI breaker is going to be eventually replaced with a 50 amp one once I convert the rig. For now, my camper is limited to 30 amp as well, since they are both on the same circuit. Not a huge deal, since it's 30 amp 240V. Still plenty of power to run the camper inside the barn. Can't brew and run the RV at the same time, but that would have been the case anyway with the 100 amp feed. 40 amp is for the water heater, with the rest being the 120v circuits.

Since @mongoose33 wants to see some equipment...

The chest freezer has a Northern English Brown ale fermenting in it. Temperatures around here are dropping into the 30's, so I've got an electric heat wrap inside and controlling the temperature around 65F.

That's it so far. Next steps in the upgrade process:

• Get a Steamslayer from @Bobby_M at brewhardware.com. This is a must, since i didn't build in any ventilation other than the bathroom vent fan. I had planned to do this right after @BrunDog posted about it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Something else for the Christmas list...
• Mount the wireless access point up above the entrance door so it's out of the way.
• Converting the rig to 50amp, BruControl, and 2 Vessels vs. 3.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about the room and setup. I got so much help and inspiration along the way from other people's threads and I want to return the favor!

Very nice. I love that floor. It has two things I really, really wish I had in my garage, where I brew on a concrete floor: it's easy to clean, and you have a trench or gutter drain.

That floor looks like an epoxy coating or similar. What did you do to it?

I also like the extra capacity in the electrical panel. Who knows what other ideas you'll have?

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

The floor coating is a Polyurea/Polyaspartic coating. I used a local installer: https://pinnacleconcretecoatings.com/ It includes a small amount of grit for slip resistance, but it still cleans really easy with a squeegee. I generally try to DIY these type of projects (which is why they take 3 years!), but for this, I went to a professional for a couple of reasons:

1. My past experience with epoxy coatings was less than satisfactory
2. The advertised coverage for epoxy coatings is never enough, and you end up buying 2-3 times what they claim. Another shout-out to @highland_brewer and his video on the floor coating hassles he went through
3. Cost was a bit more expensive for the pro's to do it, but it was done in a day and I didn't have to do much other than write the check!

The floor drain is a game changer: no more worries about catching every drop when cleaning up! I did caulk the baseboard at the floor around the room to prevent anything from collecting in the cracks.

I chose the largest panel I could find, so I've got 10 additional breaker spots for the future. Panels are like garages: you can never have too big!

 

[Brew_Dude41]

Congrats and it is looks real nice.

Now i dont feel so bad that mine is not complete yet, but I have only been working on it since March...

 

[highland_brewer]

At long last, after 3 years of interference from real life, the Brewing space is done! Inaugural brew was just completed.

What follows is my build thread. It will cover the room construction for now, with my brewing rig coming later - my rig is currently 30 amp, but eventually I'll upgrade it all to 50 amp. Funding for that is delayed, since the room construction took up the budget for now! I did plan for it, so the 240V circuit for the rig is 6 gauge.

Some special thanks to the following HBT members for their help and inspiration along the way:

• @BrunDog for putting up with endless questions, BruControl, and his 2V setup.
• @augiedoggy for his ideas on long RIMS heating elements.
• @highland_brewer for all the construction videos of your basement brewery (you are directly responsible for the floor drain!)

The Brewing space is built into the back corner of my barn (no basements where I live - water table is too high). The barn also stores my camper, so I used the 50 amp circuit to cover both the RV and the brew room. Plumbing is also set up for the camper.

Attached are the plans showing the framing, plumbing, and electrical - I used these to get the permits. Photos of construction to follow.

I'll take responsibility for the floor drain!! Looks good man!!

 

[highland_brewer]

Gla

The floor coating is a Polyurea/Polyaspartic coating. I used a local installer: https://pinnacleconcretecoatings.com/ It includes a small amount of grit for slip resistance, but it still cleans really easy with a squeegee. I generally try to DIY these type of projects (which is why they take 3 years!), but for this, I went to a professional for a couple of reasons:

1. My past experience with epoxy coatings was less than satisfactory
2. The advertised coverage for epoxy coatings is never enough, and you end up buying 2-3 times what they claim. Another shout-out to @highland_brewer and his video on the floor coating hassles he went through
3. Cost was a bit more expensive for the pro's to do it, but it was done in a day and I didn't have to do much other than write the check!

The floor drain is a game changer: no more worries about catching every drop when cleaning up! I did caulk the baseboard at the floor around the room to prevent anything from collecting in the cracks.

I chose the largest panel I could find, so I've got 10 additional breaker spots for the future. Panels are like garages: you can never have too big!

Glad it helped!! I certainly had my issues with that.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Glad it helped!! I certainly had my issues with that.

Yeah, your video basically convinced me that I didn't want to do the floor coating myself! One of the best things about your channel is that you show the good and the bad; that really helps to make an informed decision. Keep up the great work!


In general, I don't care too much about how something looks as long as it functions the way I need it to. For example, I went with a plastic sink instead of a bling-worth stainless one since it works just as well for a fraction of the price. In the case of the floor, however, I think I got both form AND function!

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Congrats and it is looks real nice.

Now i dont feel so bad that mine is not complete yet, but I have only been working on it since March...

Thanks! And don't get discouraged over how long it takes: It's worth it in the end. When I moved my stuff out of the garage, I was shocked at how many dead bugs, dirt, cobwebs, etc. were hiding in and around my gear. The new room is going to be much more sanitary!

 

[augiedoggy]

Very Nice!

 

[BrunDog]

Pretty sweet so far... nice work!!

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Ok, got a minor addition done over the Thanksgiving holiday: added a shelf for the WiFi access point above the entrance door:

I had planned for this right from the start - that's why the plug and blank box were there. The blank box is in case I needed to run a physical cable back to the house; I wasn't sure if there would be enough signal, since the walls of the barn are metal. However, it turns out there is enough to run it as a Mesh WiFi - no cable required!

The Ethernet cable that you do see hanging down is installed via Command Hooks over to the brew rig, since the BCS-460 that I currently use doesn't play well over WiFi. Eventually, it's going to get replaced with an Arduino and BruControl.

I didn't mention this earlier, but the next project will be to add a back-splash around the sink. Definitely going to need that, as I get a bit of over-spray when cleaning the larger components like the Mash Tun and Kettle.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Since we're all stuck doing our civic duty by avoiding other people (Introverts rejoice!), it was time to start some upgrades to the rig.

First up - changes to the Kettle:

• New tri-clover heating element w/weldless bulkhead from @Bobby_M
• Wide-Body SteamSlayer (also from @Bobby_M)
• Whirlpool kettle return (also also from @Bobby_M)

Seems like Bobby's getting a lot of business from me this month...well worth it!

Here's the old version before making the changes; I followed Kal's original design way back when for the heating element using an o-ring, washer, and electrical box. Kettle return was a simple up and over deal; that had to go in order to put the lid on to close things up for the SteamSlayer. Note the sight glass that was installed long ago, which incidentally was another one of @Bobby_M 's great products.

Had to drill out the old hole for the heating element; used a 40mm carbide hole saw:

Next, drilling the holes for the SteamSlayer and Whirlpool return. You can see the True bulkhead from Bobby for the heating element on the left side:

Putting it all together:

Now for the test run; here's 100% power on the 4500W ripple element; absolutely no steam coming from the lid:

Cold water temperature is around 50°F; at full power, I was getting around 150-155°F on the condenser outlet. I have the 9gph spray nozzle, since my water temperature will get a lot warmer in the summer. I'll have to see what it ends up at in August before I decide to step down to the 6 gph nozzle.

That's it for now; next upgrade will be to build a new RIMS tube and reworking the electrical to 50 amp and the ability to run both the RIMS and Kettle heaters at the same time - this will finally enable me to fully convert to a 2V system. I've been effectively doing 2V for a while now, but 30 amps has prevented me from running both heaters at the same time.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

It's been a long time coming, but the new system is finally assembled (for now...it's never going to be "done", since I'll always keep changing stuff!).

The goal was to convert my old 3 vessel, 30 amp system into a 2 vessel 50 amp system. The old setup had several limitations that I wanted to eliminate:

1. RIMS heater was a very short 3500W 240V heater that I never could run beyond 50% power or else I got localized boiling in the tube.
2. HLT had a 1500W 120V heater that took way to long to heat up
3. Brew kettle has a 4500W heater (which is more than enough), but I couldn't run it and the RIMS tube at the same time.
4. HLT took up a lot of space in the brew room.

The new system overcomes those issues:

1. 50 amp allows simultaneous use of both the Brew Kettle and RIMS Heaters
2. RIMS Tube is a 22" long heating element. It's 6000W @ 208V, but I'm running it at 120V, so it works out to 2000W, which keeps the watt density way down and the contact time high (thanks to @augiedoggy for the inspiration on that!)
3. Sparge water is kept hot in the Brew Kettle, then pump the entire sparge volume gently on top of the mash tun. This creates a kind of "black and tan" effect, with the low density water floating above the mash. I then pump the mash over to the now empty Boil Kettle. It's basically a modified fly sparge.
4. No need for a HLT, so it's a true 2 Vessel system (thanks to @BrunDog for the inspiration on that!)

I've attached my piping diagram and my electrical schematics; pictures of the conversion to follow.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Assembling the backplane for the electrical box:

Making progress on the electrical:

Electrical is done. You'll note all the extra space in the panel: That's like a garage - you can never have enough room! Eventually, the BCS is going to be replaced by an Arduino and BruControl, so I planned for that in the panel.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Here's the old RIMS heater - it was only about 12" long, which was WAY too short. For those of you who doubt scorching happens, here's some photo evidence:

And here's the new heater assembly:

And the full rig:

The pump suction tubing is thermoplastic, since I had it from the old system and it is more rigid than silicone tubing. It holds it's shape better for the sweeping curve down to the pump - lower head loss. All the other tubing is silicone.

You'll also notice there are no isolation valves on the drains for both vessels - I determined I don't need them, since the tubing stays in place for the whole brew session.

That's it for now; gotta get back to the Amber Ale that's about to finish mashing. First brew session on the new setup - so far, it's meeting all my goals.

 

[augiedoggy]

If you get a plugged pump or a malfunction those valves might come in handy though...

 

[BrunDog]

Nice. With the igloo MT you should not need hardly any heat into the wort, unless step mashing.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

If you get a plugged pump or a malfunction those valves might come in handy though...

That's an excellent point; I hadn't considered that. I've never really run into a plugged pump during brewing - I have had issues with a lot of hops blocking it up after I'm done and I'm trying to flush out the lines. I very rarely do a massive hop load, so I might need to attempt a Pliny clone or something to test that out. Another point is, since both pumps discharge into a common manifold, I can use one pump to backflush the other one if it does get plugged up.

I can always add the valves if it becomes an issue, but I really like not having the valve stick out the drain line - much easier to move around without banging the valve on things.

I do a CIP on the pumps and piping, using the kettle as a holding vessel for the hot water/cleaning solution. However, I still end up having to manually clean the kettle anyway, so the ability to move it into the sink is very beneficial. It fits into the sink very easily right now - when I had the valve on it, it didn't fit very well.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Nice. With the igloo MT you should not need hardly any heat into the wort, unless step mashing.

Thanks! The RIMS barely does anything during the main rest, but I do use it to raise the temperature up to around 167°F at the end. Only one brew session in so far, but I got around 2°F/min during that step. Still more fine tuning to go - once I go to BruControl, I'll get the flow meters working and be able to really experiment with flows & heating rates.

I also use the Mash tun to collect the water from the chiller, then recirculate that through the RIMS tube to heat up CIP/rinse water so it serves more than one purpose.