Flanders Red--not sour after 12 months

[zlandaal]

I brewed a flanders red about 12 months ago per this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=241728

I did a 5 gallon batch, pitched a roeselare blend, then after 3 months racked it to a second carboy and pitched the 2nd 5 gallon batch right on top of the yeast cake with a fresh smack pack of roeselare.

They have both been in a glass carboy with rubber stopper/ air lock in a 75 degree room for the last year. They have only attenuated to 1.012.

Is there any way I can help this finish right? It tastes good, but its just missing the sourness... Should I periodically let oxygen in? (I've only sampled once!) Or should I add more fermentables, like DME/corn sugar? Or should I just keep waiting

 

[TheMadKing]

Just dump some vinegar in it, then it'll taste exactly like a Flanders red should! [emoji16]

 

[Weezy]

Did you hit your OG? Did brew day go well?

Were the smack packs in good health?

Did you taste them along the way or did you just wait for a year?

 

[stinkblossom]

I can relate. I did something similar to you and mine is 1yr and 2 months old. Smells great but lacks acidity. 9 months in I added 100gms of moltodextrin. And still no luck.
Gavity is 1.007 and stable for 2 months.
I'm going to brew an acid beer with just lacto and then sac; mash low for simple sugars. Blend to taste and let it ferment out then bottle. Maybe thats an option for you.

 

[zlandaal]

Did you hit your OG? Did brew day go well?

Were the smack packs in good health?

Did you taste them along the way or did you just wait for a year?

Brew day went well. Smack packs were ordered directly from wyeast, shipped right after being made, and used immediately. Hit OG of 1.051 (target 1.053).

I waited until a year to taste, other than when transferring the first batch into secondary.

 

[burninator]

Got commercial sours available to you? Crooked Stave, Jolly Pumpkin, and most of the lambic brewers have voracious, complex microbes in their bottles that will help add acidity and depth of flavor, even when added to secondary.

 

[Weezy]

I can relate. I did something similar to you and mine is 1yr and 2 months old. Smells great but lacks acidity. 9 months in I added 100gms of moltodextrin. And still no luck.
Gavity is 1.007 and stable for 2 months.
I'm going to brew an acid beer with just lacto and then sac; mash low for simple sugars. Blend to taste and let it ferment out then bottle. Maybe thats an option for you.

That's not a bad idea. brew another 5 gallon batch, soir in the kettle (ntensely sour), then ferment with just sacc. Blend to taste with the original batches.

Or you could order up some pedio and lacto brevis (aggressive and hop tolerant) and let it go another 6 months.

What's current pH?

 

[mitchard]

Interesting. A member of my club brought in a sample of her Roeselare beer that was 12 months old and have absolutely no acidity. I was kind of dumbfounded. Though that blend need more than a year generally, sourness should have been achieved by a year.

Should definitely be lower than 1.012 as well.

 

[505-Brewer]

Wyeast bugs r weak in my experience. Whats the IBUs on the 3.5 oz Fuggles for bittering?

I second adding some dregs like Jolly Pumpkin. That will fix it.

 

[secondbase]

I'm guessing the ibu are probably too high for the souring bacteria. In general I like to keep mine under 10 for sours and under 5 for first generation commercial pitches. At 1.012 you can pitch some aggressive dregs like Russian River, Jolly Pumpkin or Crooked Stave and likely see some additional souring. For some added insurance, you could also add some maltodextrin for the brett and bacteria.

 

[zlandaal]

Based off of this advice, I bought two Jolly Pumpkin beers and two Cascade beers. I'm going to add one of each to them and see where that takes me! I spent too much money on those beers to just down them in one night though

I'm going to get some maltodextrin too. I've read 4-8oz is a good amount to add. I might just go for it with 8oz/5gal, I can always brew more later to blend

 

[505-Brewer]

JP dregs in 1.012 will have a feeding frenzy and it will get crazy sour. I would not add maltodextrine. Chk it once a month and when u hit the sweetspot keg it. You should easily hit pH 3.2.

Cascade will also sour aggressively but in my experience is very one dimensional - all lacto.

 

[Icebrewer]

From FAQ on milkthefunk.com :
Sometimes Roeselare and other mixed cultures don't get the acidity that you might want. If it hasn't been a year yet, waiting longer may help, but sometimes it doesn't. If after a year the acidity is not high enough for you, try adding fruit such as cherries or raspberries (or even fresh wort). The fruit has various acids in it, and the sugar content will partially be turned into lactic acid by the surviving bacteria (the brewer's yeast will be dead after a year). Brewing with no hops and a very high mash temperature (158°F-160°F) is highly recommended for next time.

Hope this helps

 

[masonsjax]

Most sour bacteria blends do a poor job of making a sour beer the first generation IME, especially Roesealare. My suggestion is to always get the first batch out and a new one on asap, the second one will be better. Biodiversity helps a lot too. Pitch in bottle dregs from beers that have viable microbes. A list can be found on madfermentationist website. With sours, you want to make a lot of them cause the feedback loop is so long. If you make a new one every month or so, after the first year you'll have a steady pipeline of sours becoming drinkable, and each gets better as the colony grows in numbers and species if you keep adding to them.

Also you can use a little maltodextrin. Saccharomyces can't eat it, but the bacteria can, which should give you a little more acid.

 

[AkBrewer49]

What the last two posts said!!

 

[Brizzo]

I did something similar. Flanders red with Roselare. 12 months not sour. I added sour cherry purée and 4 months later it is mouth puckering sour. I had transferred it prior to adding the fruit and brewed a fresh Flanders red and it is way more sour after 6 months then the first one was after 14 months.

 

[Joewalla88]

I've actually had some really good experiences with the roselaare blend. My first beer was good to go after 1 year. I did something wierd though. After abcouple months I tranferred to a secondary, and a few months later repitched a jar of the culture that I poured off the primary. I don't know why I did that, but it seems to kick the souring into a higher gear. I've reused it a couple times, and it seems to be souring just fine.

 

[Sillybilly]

I've actually had some really good experiences with the roselaare blend. My first beer was good to go after 1 year. I did something wierd though. After abcouple months I tranferred to a secondary, and a few months later repitched a jar of the culture that I poured off the primary. I don't know why I did that, but it seems to kick the souring into a higher gear. I've reused it a couple times, and it seems to be souring just fine.

I glad to see you had success with this method because I am planning to do something very similar to that!