Now I'm really confused about cooling wort

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Ok, my question is simpy "have I just screwed up?"

The instructions that came with my recipe kit basically recommends putting the hot wort into a sink with ice-water and stir every 15 mins to cool < 80F. It then states that once cooled, aerate like crazy (even pour repeatedly between 2 sanitsed buckets).

However, what I did was add half-frozen bottled water to the wort which only cooled it to ~100F so I panicked and stirred the wort like crazy thinking I could not only cool it asap but also aerate at the same time. Additionally, including putting into the fridge, it must have taken me some 4 hours to finally cool to < 80F!

My worries are, having just read John Palmer's advice on cooling wort he maintains that one should stir gently and "minimize splashing to avoid oxidation" (!) plus that one should cool within 30mins!

 

[BetterSense]

RDWHAHB

It will be fine.

 

[unionrdr]

Hot wort should be cooled in 20 minutes or less to get little or no chill haze come fridge time. Unless you use irish moss. Also,I put the hot kettle in the sink with just cold water once or twice for a minute or two to cut the high end of the heat a little. Then drain sink,put kettle back in,fill to the top of the sink with ice. Then top that off with cold water. Works a bit faster.

 

[DocScott]

Oxidation prior to fermentation is a good thing. Your yeast need oxygen to reproduce! Oxidation after fermentation is a bad thing.

Cooling your wort quickly to pitch temp is important but shouldn't worry you too much for this brew. What you did is fine. Multiple transfer and open vessels increases the chance of picking up an unwanted bacteria, but as long as you cleaned and sanitized everything that touched the wort once it started cooling, you'll be fine. Look into a wort chiller (you can make one for $40) for future beers.

 

[JRapp]

It takes me a long time too, Ive stopped stressing out about it after reading some posts on here. Some people just leave their wort overnight to get to room temp and they never have any problems.

Anyway the 1st time I brewed I got it to like 120 and started aerating like crazy thinking it would come down fast. I was drunk and had like 1000 other strikes against me and the beer turned out ok. (just ok.)

For the most part your beer will most likely be just fine, but for next time Ice baths are great. Always have some ice on hand for brew day. Otherwise dont stress too much about bringing down your temp, it wont ruin your beer, but the faster the better.

I plan on getting or making a wort chiller in the next few, Having one or some other awesome means of bringing down the temp would really shorted a brew day.

 

[seandamnit]

cooling your wort fast isn't THAT important, taste wise. It's my understanding that it just makes a less hazy beer. don't stress.

I like to cool mine fast just so I can finish up a brew day faster and go to bed. A bathtub w/some frozen bottles of water, a little bit of stirring, and some pre-boiled top off water that I chilled in the fridge does the trick fast enough for me.

 

[unionrdr]

I cool mine down to about 75F,strain into fermenter,then top off with COLD local spring water down to about 64F. Good ale or ale/kolsh yeast temp.

 

[GASoline71]

I've "screwed up" worse than this, and have had beers turn out just fine. In the 2 years I've been brewing, I've only had one batch turn out "bad"... but we still drank it. This whole brewing thing is a learning process... so... invest in a wort chiller. EZPZ mang.

You're fine... I bet you're beer will be damn good too.

Gary

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Thanks everyone. Whether the batch turns out badly or not, relaxing can only help! I should chill-out-and-have-a-beer (COHAB).

But for my future attempts, what's the view on John Palmer's comment about not aerating the wort UNTIL it's already cooled else you risk "oxidation"?? I've never seen this concern before browsing thro forums.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html

 

[BansheeRider]

Thanks everyone. Whether the batch turns out badly or not, relaxing can only help! I should chill-out-and-have-a-beer (COHAB).

But for my future attempts, what's the view on John Palmer's comment about not aerating the wort UNTIL it's already cooled else you risk "oxidation"?? I've never seen this concern before browsing thro forums.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html

Preventing oxidation is more so important after fermentation has already begun.

 

[GetSudz]

I think he's speaking of hot-side aeration.
I'd invest in wort chiller. Ice bath is a PITA!

 

[bnairuni87]

I have five frozen bottle of water 16 and 22 ounce, and is dump those in bleach water, air dry and put in wort. I follow up with 4 gallon milk jugs i keep in the fridge.

As I put in the water I shake the gallons and aerate the wort.

 

[25518]

I use a 1.75 ice cream container filled with ice. Dump in me wort. Pre sanitized of course. While giving it a ice bath in sink for, I think I had it chilled in ten minutes. But, I brewed 1 Gal. I had to take the ice chunk out. Or it was gonna chill into the negatives. But upon reading this. I'm starting a new thread. "areation".

 

[rgarry]

I live in Florida and the cold tap water is 80f. I use a wort chiller and a prewort chiller. Cools re quickly. During the winter we get some cold front and I never miss the opportunity to brew since it is just that much easier.

 

[davekippen]

I use a big tub and do this: Fill with cold water. Put kettle in and stir kettle. Wait 5 minutes and dump water cuz its already hot. Repeat. Now I add ice to the tub and stir. I stir every 5 minutes or so until its down to 70 ish. Its also important to stir the water surrounding the kettle, as a little heat zone is created around the kettle. You want the cold water always in contact with the kettle!

I just heard about "hot side aeration" a few weeks ago. I whip the sh*t out of my hot wart until its cool and have never noticed oxidation. Basic Brewing did a podcast on it, and the results were inconclusive. I have placed well in comps (one first place even) and Ive never had one comment about oxidation as an off flavor.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks everyone. Whether the batch turns out badly or not, relaxing can only help! I should chill-out-and-have-a-beer (COHAB).

But for my future attempts, what's the view on John Palmer's comment about not aerating the wort UNTIL it's already cooled else you risk "oxidation"?? I've never seen this concern before browsing thro forums.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html

I would try to not risk HSA, but often it's debated as even something that happens at the homebrew level. I don't worry about it, but I also try not to splash hot wort around. Sometimes, it's just not possible to avoid pouring hot wort due to equipment malfunctions and things. But my understanding of HSA is not so much an oxidized flavor but a lowered stability of the finished beer. It might go stale faster, for example.

I like to chill the wort in an ice bath to under 100 degrees, then add cold water or the ice that was prepared. That gets the temperature to 65 degrees pretty quick- a perfect pitching temperature for most ales.

 

[BamaProud]

A wort Chiller is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brodacious
I ran out of muslin bags so I used a large gym sock... .

Man, this is so hilarious I was nearly in tears! Precious.

 

[andy6026]

I think a wort chiller is one of the best investments a home-brewer can make. I appreciate that it's not in everyones budget. But denying oneself a few trips to the bar, fast food, or anything else that consumes petty-cash and in a pinch one can do without - you'll have it for the rest of your life and it will serve you well. Brews are less stressful, and they are A LOT faster if you're not standing there constantly counter-stirring wort and ice water.

Build it yourself or buy it ready-made. Honestly, the gauge and length of your chiller doesn't matter a whole bundle - it's that the sink or the hose it doing the work for you, lickety-split.

Get one as soon as you are able.

 

[davekippen]

Man, this is so hilarious I was nearly in tears! Precious.

If I remember the thread correctly, he was dead serious!

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Please tell me he at least sanitized them first?!?! Yuk.

 

[shaggy727]

I made a wort chiller out of 20 ft 1/2 outter diameter, a section of 1/2 inch hose, and female garden hose end. Cost me about $30 from menards. Should be able to do similar from lowes or home depot. Works great. I use a "muck bucket" with a bit of ice water and my chiller. Gets my temp down in under 10-15 mins most of the time.

 

[grem135]

I made a chiller using about 40ft of 3/8 copper. The first time I just let it run for 15 minutes and when I checked my wort was at 58f. I keep a better eye on it now.

 

[bacchusmj]

That's some cold water. My chiller gets to about 80 in 15 mins for a 5.5 gallon boil. But I do live in va so my water runs pretty warm.

 

[WileECoyote]

Ok, my question is simpy "have I just screwed up?"

The instructions that came with my recipe kit basically recommends putting the hot wort into a sink with ice-water and stir every 15 mins to cool < 80F. It then states that once cooled, aerate like crazy (even pour repeatedly between 2 sanitsed buckets).

However, what I did was add half-frozen bottled water to the wort which only cooled it to ~100F so I panicked and stirred the wort like crazy thinking I could not only cool it asap but also aerate at the same time. Additionally, including putting into the fridge, it must have taken me some 4 hours to finally cool to < 80F!

My worries are, having just read John Palmer's advice on cooling wort he maintains that one should stir gently and "minimize splashing to avoid oxidation" (!) plus that one should cool within 30mins!

Hello, read this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/cooling-wort-fast-without-chiller.html

Cheers

 

[grem135]

That's some cold water. My chiller gets to about 80 in 15 mins for a 5.5 gallon boil. But I do live in va so my water runs pretty warm.

Unfortunately my water temp will be closer to 80 by August. St Louis area gets big temp swings. I bought a pond pump to recirculate ice water in a cooler once I get the temp down some.

 

[Yankeepride15]

A wort Chiller is worth its weight in gold.

Mine's worth it's weight in copper.

 

[tre9er]

A wort Chiller is worth its weight in gold.

Well, copper, at least.

Edit: Damn, beaten to the punch

 

[Yankeepride15]

Well, copper, at least.

Edit: Damn, beaten to the punch

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Great minds thinking alike and all that.

 

[tre9er]

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Great minds thinking alike and all that.

Wait, your mind and...then who's, again?

 

[grem135]

Minds?

 

[jwetzler]

Thanks everyone. Whether the batch turns out badly or not, relaxing can only help! I should chill-out-and-have-a-beer (COHAB).

But for my future attempts, what's the view on John Palmer's comment about not aerating the wort UNTIL it's already cooled else you risk "oxidation"?? I've never seen this concern before browsing thro forums.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html

I like to put about 2 gallons of store bought spring water/drinking water into the fridge about a day before I brew.

About 10 minutes before my Boil is over, fill the sink up with water and ice, and put the stock pot into the cold water.

Then I'll dump about a gallon of the cold water that I had in the fridge into it and stir.

Then dump it all into the fermenter and top off with the other jug of cold water. Normally gets the wort temp down to about 66F in about 15 minutes.

As far as aerating the wort after it's cooled...idk the science behind that. But I would rather spill cooled wort on me than 140F wort lol...if using the dump back and forth method. I think the main risk of oxidization is after fermentation has completed...as the yeast won't be able to use the oxygen that it has been exposed to, and could result in a stale kind of taste.

 

[kh54s10]

I made a double section chiller from 2 coils of 3/8? I think copper coil. 20 feet each from Home Depot. I got a 10' section of black vinyl tubing, 4 hose clamps and a hose to nipple connection for about $40 total. One section goes in the wort, the other in a bucket with cold water/ice. In the summer it takes 30 - 40 minutes, in the winter 10-15 minutes. I do not sweat how long it takes and have not noticed any big difference.

And for once I somewhat disagree with Yooper. I think hot side aeration , before fermentation has started, is a myth and nothing to worry about. YMMV.

 

[WileECoyote]

As far as aerating the wort after it's cooled...idk the science behind that. But I would rather spill cooled wort on me than 140F wort lol...if using the dump back and forth method. I think the main risk of oxidization is after fermentation has completed...as the yeast won't be able to use the oxygen that it has been exposed to, and could result in a stale kind of taste.

Hello, there are 2 times when you don't want to introduce oxygen into your brew, hot wort aeration=anything over 100 deg. and after fermentation.

As far as the science behind these, lots of threads explain these in great detail, simple answer it can make your beer taste bad, like cardboard.

Cheers

 

[tre9er]

I used my IC setup last night and it took me 25 minutes with 65* tap water to go from boiling to 70* wort. I have a 25' 3/8" pre-chiller that goes in a bucket of ice water, then it feeds a 50' 3/8" immersion chiller. Then racking takes another 5-10 minutes. Honestly, call me lazy but this is just too long, and I'm still not where I want to be for pitching temp. I can take that 25' pre-chiller and turn it into a CFC and rack the wort plus chill it at the same time, all in 5-10 minutes, and get it cooler than 70*. 5 hour brew days tend to suck after a while, especially when they're on a weeknight. Shaving 25 minutes off my day is worth a lot at midnight.

 

[BetterSense]

Do you do 10gal batches?

I have a 50ft chiller and it does not take me that long with 5gal batches. I start with warm tap water and switch to ice water. The most important factor is continuous stirring. I ignore HSA and stirr continuously because it makes it take half the time.

I also think pre-chillers are not nearly as good as pumping ice water directly.

 

[tre9er]

Do you do 10gal batches?

I have a 50ft chiller and it does not take me that long with 5gal batches. I start with warm tap water and switch to ice water. The most important factor is continuous stirring. I ignore HSA and stirr continuously because it makes it take half the time.

I also think pre-chillers are not nearly as good as pumping ice water directly.

9-9.5g batches. The input side of the IC is very cold throughout the process due to the pre-chiller, which does make a difference albeit not the same as pumping ice-water. I stir probably 10 times in those 20 minutes, basically every few minutes I'm stirring inside and outside of the IC, counter to the flow of water within the IC. I also stir the pre-chiller ice-water counter-flow, too.

 

[BetterSense]

That doesn't sound too far off. I figure it takes me 10 minutes to cool down a 5gal batch and think that's pretty good. Stands to reason a 10gal batch would take 20 min or so.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

I've just finished brewing a hefeweizen and I'm soooo pumped as i managed to cool the wort to the low 60's within 10 minutes without any wort chiller. In fact, the method was so effective that I had to stop the chilling as the wort was chilling too quickly! Nothing ground-breakng mind you, I just improvised after getting inspiration from you guys on this forum.

Essentially, I froze bottled mineral water for over a week before brew day to get the ice as close as possible to the -18C (~0F) setting on my freezer. I used several 1 liter plastic containers (see pic) with screw tops and were conical shaped so that after a little thawing the ice blocks would just drop out. The containers were all sanitised before being filled 90% (water volume expands ~10% when frozen).

After flame-out, I put the pot in a basin of water and ice and whilst I waited for the frozen water containers to thaw slightly I stirred the wort and iced water gently. With just the ice bath, the wort temp seemed to fall at a snail's pace, even after 5 minutes, but when i dunked only half of the iced water blocks in and stirred gently, my goodness, the temp plummeted and within a few minutes the temp had fallen to ~60F yet the blocks had not even half melted (I'm referring to the liquid temp, not ice against the thermometer)! So i had to remove the blocks and scamble to find any remaining bottled water at room temperature.

Anyway, it felt great and I just wanted to share. Now for the clean up.....sigh.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

FYI, I've just brewed a Big River Amber and I managed to cool the hot wort down to ~68F WITHIN 5 mins using the same technique mentioned in my last post except the ice blocks were slightly thawed in advance and therefore were ready to be thrown in immediately. As per last time, the ice blocks were barely half melted by 68F and I had to remove them before the wort became too chilled.

I doubt there's any added benefit chilling so quickly except that it feels great!