Galaxy Ginger Punch - Comments wanted!

[eddiewould]

Hey guys,

Looking for some feedback on the below recipe. What I'm going for is a "fruit punch" themed beer. So galaxy hops, lots of crystal malt, residual sweetness from moderately high mash temperature.

As well as looking for general feedback, I've got some specific questions:
1) How can I maximize the "pineapple" (and tropical notes) from the Galaxy hop? Does anyone have any thoughts on which hop addition I should emphasise?

2) I'm thinking of adding some orange zest (just the outer part, no pith!) - maybe 1-2oz along with the ginger (last 10 mins of the boil). Do you think this would work?

3) Not sure which yeast I should use. Tossing up between Safbrew Wheat (DCL/Fermentis #WB-06) and US-05 or maybe S-04. The esters from S-04 might work quite well.

4) Do you reckon the bitterness is about right? I'm now thinking it might be a tad high.

5) I'm planning on adding about 1oz of grated fresh ginger with 10 minutes on the boil. Does this sound like too much or too little? I don't want a strong ginger flavour, but I want it to be there (and to meld with everything else).



Recipe: Ginger Punch TYPE: All Grain
Style: Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer

SRM: 26.5 EBC
IBU: 43.7 IBUs (Tinseth)
OG: 1.071 SG
FG: 1.020 SG
BU:GU: 0.616
EE%: 70.60 % Batch: 22.00 l Boil: 33.24 l BT: 90 Mins

Total Grain Weight: 7.50 kg Total Hops: 100.00 g oz.

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.00 kg               Malteurop 2-row Pale (NZ) (5.5 EBC)      Grain         1        53.3 %        
1.50 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         2        20.0 %        
1.00 kg               Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC)        Grain         3        13.3 %        
1.00 kg               Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC)   Grain         4        13.3 %

Mash temperature: 66.7C, 60 minutes, no mash out

Fly sparge @ 75.6 C

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
10.00 g               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min         Hop           5        14.0 IBUs     
10.00 g               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min         Hop           6        10.1 IBUs     
30.00 g               Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min         Hop           7        19.5 IBUs     
28.00 g               Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 mins)             Herb          8        -

Yeast: WB06? S-04? US-05?
Dry hop w/ 50g of Galaxy

 

[inthesound]

I used 3 oz of fresh, peeled, sliced ginger in an APA, and the ginger flavor was huge, which is what I was going for. I think 1oz might be just right, but if you don't wan to take the risk of ginger dominating the recipe, I might even do just a half ounce. I think the esters from the S-04 will take away from what you're aiming for, but perhaps not. It's a little too tart for my taste, and I think with everything else going in this beer it might just become an indistinct. I'd go with US-05, that should let your ginger and galaxy shine through. The orange zest sounds like a good plan. I'd be careful adding too much crystal, or I think you'll dominate the flavor with the sweetness. To maximize that galaxy hop, I'd do a big flameout addition. Your dry hop should help, too.

You may want to kick up the ibu's on the beer, judging by your o.g.. Your f.g. will definitely be lower if you're using US-05. With the exception of the one session beer I brewed with US-05, it finished at 1.012. It will definitely be on the sweeter side if your ibu's are in the low 40's on a 7.5% beer.

Take that for what it's worth. Good luck with the brew, let us know how it turns out.

 

[eddiewould]

I used 3 oz of fresh, peeled, sliced ginger in an APA, and the ginger flavor was huge, which is what I was going for. I think 1oz might be just right, but if you don't wan to take the risk of ginger dominating the recipe, I might even do just a half ounce. I think the esters from the S-04 will take away from what you're aiming for, but perhaps not. It's a little too tart for my taste, and I think with everything else going in this beer it might just become an indistinct. I'd go with US-05, that should let your ginger and galaxy shine through. The orange zest sounds like a good plan. I'd be careful adding too much crystal, or I think you'll dominate the flavor with the sweetness. To maximize that galaxy hop, I'd do a big flameout addition. Your dry hop should help, too.

You may want to kick up the ibu's on the beer, judging by your o.g.. Your f.g. will definitely be lower if you're using US-05. With the exception of the one session beer I brewed with US-05, it finished at 1.012. It will definitely be on the sweeter side if your ibu's are in the low 40's on a 7.5% beer.

Take that for what it's worth. Good luck with the brew, let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the response!
I presume the 3oz of ginger was in a 5 gallon (or thereabouts) batch? How long did you boil it for? Any particular reason you sliced it rather than grated it?

My beers never seem to go much below 1.020. I'll considering increasing the IBUs a bit.

Perhaps I'll get a second packet (another 100g) of Galaxy. Will allow for a bigger dry hop and more flameout/late hop additions.

 

[inthesound]

Yeah, the 3oz was in a 5 gallon batch. I think I sliced it because I was under the assumption that it would be easier to remove from my wort than grated or minced, etc...but I always strain my wort anyway (typically use leaf hops). I don't know how much the fact that I sliced it played into the flavor and aroma it imparted on the beer, but I'm planning on making another batch the same way, soon. Oh, and my ginger went in at 15 minutes.

Oh, and I forgot to say in my first post, that I think if you kick the IBU's up to around 50-60, that should help keep the beer from being too sweet, but also not too bitter, I assume that a fruit punch themed brew is supposed to stay drinkable (but at 7.5%, you might just be getting a lot of people unwittingly drunk!)

In reference to your comment about your high final gravity, what are your typical f.g.'s/mash temps/and yeast choices?

 

[eddiewould]

I might scale the malt back a little bit. I think ideally I'd like it somewhere in the 6% - 7% range. At the moment (assuming current grain bill & efficiency) Beersmith is predicting 7.4% but that's assuming FG 1.015 which I doubt I'll hit (normally get to 1.020)

I normally mash at 66.7C (152F) but I'm not 100% confident in my thermometer (but measuring boiling water gives a reading of 100C +/- 1C so it can't be too bad. That's using US-05 or S-04 usually with SGs in the range of 1.060 to 1.090.

 

[inthesound]

I can't speak on behalf of the S-04 because I have limited knowledge of it (I think I've used it in two brews), but I would l think that if you're mashing around 152 typically, your US-05 should take it down further. Perhaps pitch two packs of US-05 in something 1.070 or above.

And I agree with you about dropping your grain bill; 6%, while seemingly low for us accustomed to all manners of brew, will still knock you on your ass after less than half a dozen. I made an IPA recently that finished at 5.9%, though I was aiming for 6.5%, and I had four last night while I brewed, then a fifth when I finished and cleaned up. I felt all well and good until that fifth one. Put me right to bed.

I think the importance of having a lower final gravity is that you typically have a nice dry finish, which (in my mind) make a beer infinitely more drinkable. If a beer has too much of a lingering quality, or if it's "syrupy" (here I'm mostly thinking of porters and stouts that I didn't care for), I tend to refrain from having too many.

If you're talking a grain bill reduction, I would probably try to drop a whole kilo off the recipe. I'd start with .75 kilograms of crystal (so cut it in half), and then cut the remaining .25 from where ever.

If you really want to blow this thing out and go nuts with the fruit punch theme, I would say, add several different citrus zests to the flame out addition of the boil. I would be the most heavy handed with the orange zest as it's the most tame, but I would totally throw in a little lemon zest, lime zest, and maybe even some grapefruit zest. If you were just going to throw in orange zest, I'd say go big, as it'll have a lot to compete with. 4oz seems right to me.

Again, you're brewing and drinking this beer, so your judgement overall is most important. I'm just throwing in my opinion.

I'm really interested in this idea now. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I think a pale ale with a lot of big, juicy fruit aromas would perfect for some summer sipping. Do let us know it turns out!

 

[Pratzie]

Might be beneficial to look into trying a graf too, that'll give ya alot of the fruit flavors on the cider end of it.

 

[eddiewould]

Right, decided to scale back the malt a fair bit. OG in beersmith is now 1.061. I've dropped the wheat malt entirely because I couldn't really justify it being in the recipe (not really serving any 'purpose', will probably just lead to lautering problems).

I've increased the hops (particularly late hop additions) and now I'm up to 42 IBUs, yielding a BU:GU ratio of 0.689. Note that this won't take into account the ginger or the orange zest, which I'm expecting to contribute to the perceived bitterness at least.

I reckon I'll go with about 1oz of ginger and 4oz of orange zest. That's unless it looks crazy when I'm doing it, in which case I'll reconsider.

Going to go with a 120g (4oz) dry hop (still just galaxy). I'm thinking of adding some mint leaves to the secondary. Mint is something people frequently put in their fruit punch, right? It should work with the flavour combinations, I think.

Brew day tomorrow! Can't wait.

 

[inthesound]

Nice! If you're zesting all those oranges, do it during your mash. Get a friend to come over and help (help eat all the oranges, too). I'm guessing there's only an ounce of zest or so per orange, if I recall.

Mint!? Now you're getting crazy, I like it.

Happy brewing! Keep us posted.

 

[eddiewould]

Might be beneficial to look into trying a graf too, that'll give ya alot of the fruit flavors on the cider end of it.

What is a graf?

 

[eddiewould]

Well, I brewed this yesterday. Unfortunately, the LHBS didn't have any more Galaxy left (I'm in New Zealand, remember). So I brewed it as an all citra beer.

The Citra probably won't contribute the unique tropical flavour I was looking for from Galaxy, but it should be interesting.

I ended up with 22L into the fermenter, but OG of only 1.060 (was shooting for 1.061). Tasting the hydrometer sample, I can already tell the following:

* There's probably too much crystal malt in there. It has a cloying sweetness at the moment (but then, it's wort, not beer).

* I decided to do only 60 minute boil, rather than 90

* The 4oz of orange zest was just right I think

* The 1oz of ginger was probably a _little_ much. With the current sweetness, it tastes like a ginger-nut biscuit (cookie)! Do you guys know what a ginger-nut is? Maybe it's a NZ-only thing haha. It will be interesting to see what happens to the ginger flavour as the beer ferments and then conditions.

* Again, my experience of tasting unfermented beers tells me that it may be a little unbalanced (not enough bitterness for malt). Still, time will tell.

* I bought a new thermometer probe for this brew day. It was reading 1-5C higher than my old thermometer probe (my thermometer allows two probes at once and I can see/compare the readings). So that may explain why my beers have all been finishing around 1.020.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 31.10 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.82 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.00 l
Bottling Volume: 19.16 l
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 21.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 43.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.60 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.75 kg               Malteurop 2-row Pale (NZ) (5.5 EBC)      Grain         1        73.1 %        
1.00 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         2        15.4 %        
0.75 kg               Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC)        Grain         3        11.5 %        
10.50 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min          Hop           4        13.9 IBUs     
10.50 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min          Hop           5        10.7 IBUs     
10.50 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min          Hop           6        6.9 IBUs      
28.00 g               Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 mins)             Herb          7        -             
1.00 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        8        -             
10.50 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min          Hop           9        5.0 IBUs      
25.00 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min           Hop           10       6.6 IBUs      
112.00 g              Orange peel, zested (Boil 5.0 mins)      Spice         11       -             
25.00 g               Citra [13.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min           Hop           12       0.0 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Safale American  (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)  Yeast         13       -             
108.00 g              Citra [13.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days       Hop           14       0.0 IBUs