First Lager: Starter Questions

[Col_klink]

Hi All,
I am planning on brewing my first lager this weekend. I think I have a decent understanding of the process. But I am a little unsure about my yeast starter; which will also be a first for me.
Below is the recipe I am using. I plan on making a 2 Liter starter using the Munich Lager Wyeast 125ml smack pack for this.

Does this starter size sound right?

While I am asking, how do I calculate what my OG for this recipe could/should be?


RECIPE-

6lbs Pilsner Malt extract
Steep: 12 oz German Munich Malt (8L)
8 oz German Light Crystal
8 oz Aromatic
Hops: 1/2 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker at 60 min
1/2 oz Spalter at 60 min
If desired, throw some 1/2 oz hersbrucker or spalter in at 5 minutes
Yeast: Munich Lager (Wyeast)

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[BigFloyd]

You can run your ingredients through a free online recipe calculator at - http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/ It will give you the OG. Just be sure to change the brew method to "extract" since the default is all-grain.

Once you know the expected OG, go to http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html to find out the size of starter needed (depending on stir plate, simple or agitated). Generally, lagers require twice the cells vs. ales.

If you plan on doing many lagers in the future and making starters for them, it's a good idea to buy/build a stir plate. You can get the same cell count with a much smaller starter.

Finally, are you set up to control fermentation temps? You'll want to pitch that yeast at 48*F, hold it around 48-50*F about 2 weeks and then take it up to 61-62*F for three days to do a diacetyl rest. Follow that with 6-8 weeks at 35*F in a secondary or keg.

 

[Hex23]

If you want to follow "standard" pitching advice, 2L is probably too small, especially if they yeast is older or you don't have a stir-plate. However if that's the equipment you have, making a starter is definitely better than not. Here are some good calculators for pitching: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html or yeastcalc.com

Your beer is about 1.050 (assuming you're using DME and not LME). The easiest way to calculate OG is to get a program like Beersmith, but there are other free online calculators.

 

[Col_klink]

Thanks guys! Yes, I am all set up to control the temp which I am pretty excited about


Regarding Mr. Malty's calculator; I am a little confused. It is basically saying I need a 4.3L starter using one pack of yeast OR i can make a 1.7L starter using two packs of yeast. I don't understand why making the starter larger would matter. I mean, you are adding one pack of yeast; regardless of how much "wort" you put it in correct?

I'm not sure if that makes any sense or not but any clarification would be much appreciated because I am obviously missing something here

 

[TBaGZ]

To keep it simple... The more wort you have to feed the yeast the more it will multiply and increase your cell count. If they run out of sugars to eat they stop multiplying.

 

[Col_klink]

Ok, that makes sense.

Would it also be safe to say that the larger the starter, the longer it needs to ferment?

 

[tonybrewer]

Using two packs of yeast in the starter will just get you there faster. I feel like that's kind of a waste of money because the yeast in one pack will more than double in your starter. And this is just my opinion and experience but I wouldn't worry so much about your starter size I've brewed many lagers using no starter just one yeast pack and will probably do it again with low gravity lagers. I'm sure you'll be fine with a 2 litre starter or whatever you go with

 

[Col_klink]

Using two packs of yeast in the starter will just get you there faster. I feel like that's kind of a waste of money because the yeast in one pack will more than double in your starter. And this is just my opinion and experience but I wouldn't worry so much about your starter size I've brewed many lagers using no starter just one yeast pack and will probably do it again with low gravity lagers. I'm sure you'll be fine with a 2 litre starter or whatever you go with

That's good to hear! Thanks for all the info guys this really helps

 

[rpe290]

Also you show Munich as steeping but should likely be mashed.

I would likely make more like a gallon starter for that, or 2L twice (decanted and 2L more added).

 

[Col_klink]

Also you show Munich as steeping but should likely be mashed.

I would likely make more like a gallon starter for that, or 2L twice (decanted and 2L more added).

I think this is what i'm gonna do. Should I decant the second step before pitching? Time is a factor for me on this one so if I can get away with not decanting the second step it saves me the time of letting it settle.

 

[rpe290]

I think this is what i'm gonna do. Should I decant the second step before pitching? Time is a factor for me on this one so if I can get away with not decanting the second step it saves me the time of letting it settle.

2L of nasty starter wort? it may be OK if not decanted, but I haven't tried it.

Probably a RDWHAHB moment.

I can't say for sure, but would bet that the taste benefit from the large pitch of yeast is more important than the taste negative of the starter wort...

 

[Col_klink]

Ha! Ya I see what your point

It looks like this is going to take several days to get the starter done so I may have to change my plans around a little so I can brew next week. I guess these things just can't be rushed. Thanks again for all the info.