ESB - How does it look?

[rupert130]

I have been researching ESBs and I would like to brew one. This is a rough draft of the recipe. Is 9% specialty malts too much? Also, I know that caramel malts can be traditional, but I despise them so they aren't going into this recipe.

Recipe: ESB
Brewer: me
Asst Brewer:
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 12.84 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.44 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 15.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
23 lbs Pale Ale Malt, Northwestern (Great Weste Grain 91.1 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (biscuit) (Briess) (28.0 SR Grain 4.0 %
12.0 oz Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM) Grain 3.0 %
8.0 oz Chocolate (Briess) (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 %
2.00 oz Willamette [6.90 %] - First Wort 60.0 mi Hop 26.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Willamette [6.90 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 2 Hop 7.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast

 

[oljimmy]

Looks really good to me. That GWM malt is sweeter than US 2-row but not as sweet and biscuit-y as a true UK malt like Maris Otter or Golden Promise. That's the only thing that jumps out at me, otherwise this looks pretty good.

Maybe consider losing the chocolate malt and subbing in something like Thomas Fawcett pale chocolate (180L) which can give the color and slight roastiness you want without the super-dark burnt/coffee/roast flavor that Breiss Chocolate malt can sometimes give.

And mash high, like 153-154. I find this style is really good when it's got lots of body and doesn't finish too low.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Agree on losing the Chocolate Malt, and subbing for some Maris/Optic/Halcyon/Golden Promise for the base malt, etc (Maris Otter being my preferred of the bunch for this style). Pale Chocolate would be a good sub for the chocolate (and I love that malt for the record), but even then I'd cut it entirely in a Bitter. If you want color, I'd go for a darker English crystal malt (which you don't want), or go really traditional and use a darker invert syrup. I get that a very slight hint of roast is found in examples like Bass, but I'd sooner go the paler side, and I don't like to put any roast in my Bitters. Special Roast is the closest that I would go.

 

[rupert130]

Looks really good to me. That GWM malt is sweeter than US 2-row but not as sweet and biscuit-y as a true UK malt like Maris Otter or Golden Promise. That's the only thing that jumps out at me, otherwise this looks pretty good.

Maybe consider losing the chocolate malt and subbing in something like Thomas Fawcett pale chocolate (180L) which can give the color and slight roastiness you want without the super-dark burnt/coffee/roast flavor that Breiss Chocolate malt can sometimes give.

And mash high, like 153-154. I find this style is really good when it's got lots of body and doesn't finish too low.

Agree on losing the Chocolate Malt, and subbing for some Maris/Optic/Halcyon/Golden Promise for the base malt, etc (Maris Otter being my preferred of the bunch for this style). Pale Chocolate would be a good sub for the chocolate (and I love that malt for the record), but even then I'd cut it entirely in a Bitter. If you want color, I'd go for a darker English crystal malt (which you don't want), or go really traditional and use a darker invert syrup. I get that a very slight hint of roast is found in examples like Bass, but I'd sooner go the paler side, and I don't like to put any roast in my Bitters. Special Roast is the closest that I would go.

Thanks, I'll make some adjustments based on the advice

 

[theheroguy]

This recipe needs crystal malt to truly taste like an esb. Chocolate malt of any kind is fine as it really is mostly used to adjust the color and shouldn't have a huge flavor impact. I would go at least 6% crystal malt for an esb. You want 60L or higher imo.

 

[rupert130]

Here is the latest iteration of the ESB or "American-ish ESB". How does this look? I am thinking of dry or keg hopping with cascade/columbus if it needs it. If good as is, I won't mess with it. The mild malt is the only thing I am concerned about. It would seem to add body and flavor, but I don't know if it's overkill.

 

[JKaranka]

Mild malt is good. It's just a bit maltier than MO but not as malty as some Belgian pales or German Vienna / Munich. You could sub half your pale malt for it if you wanted. You still want it relatively dry and bitter, though

 

[JKaranka]

I'd be more worried about those weird malts like carabrown and victory. Can't you get some Amber from Crisp? I like the hops, you should consider a small dry hop if you wanted typical aroma. Willamette is quite popular over here for that even in relatively traditional breweries.

 

[snow16]

Edit: I just re-read the original post and realized that my comments are irrelevant. OP doesn't want to use crystal malts, etc. My bad.

Best of luck on brewday!

 

[rupert130]

Thanks all for the input. The "weird" malts are each 2% of the grist. Just looking to get some color and depth of flavor from them. This recipe is loosely based upon a recipe from a local brewery's ESB.

 

[rupert130]

Also, I am now looking at the Amber malt as an option. I have never used it before. Any experience to share?

 

[JKaranka]

Very good stuff. Toasty. Some colour, drier than crystal malt. 2-5% with some invert sugar syrup is fairly foolproof for bitters.

 

[rupert130]

Very good stuff. Toasty. Some colour, drier than crystal malt. 2-5% with some invert sugar syrup is fairly foolproof for bitters.

Sounds similar to Victory

 

[JKaranka]

Sounds similar to Victory

I've never seen Briess malts here or drunk beers made with them. Victory sounds more similar to Biscuit malt which I've not seen used in British beers much (I'd say it clashes in a bitter). Amber malt is more like a very light brown malt. Not sure about special roast but that might be more similar? Amber was used in milds and bitters before crystal.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'll say, i do like biscuit (Victory is a trademarked biscuit malt, but I prefer Dingemans biscuit) in most of my English beers, including Bitters. Adds a little more punch to the base malt in my opinion. But I'll concede that it's not traditional by any means.

 

[rupert130]

Just brewed with the grain bill from the latest recipe. Had to sub all Willamette hops as Pilgrim have not arrived in the mail yet. Ended up with 6 gallons of 1.056 beer.

 

[rupert130]

ESB fermented down to 1.010 FG. I should have used a British yeast, but I had the Chico strain on hand. It still has pleasant maltiness, just a little dryer than I was shooting for.

 

[rupert130]

Now fully carbed up and tasting fantastic. Even at 83% AA, it has a pleasant, lingering maltiness. The bitterness is perfectly in balance. Turned out to be a very good beer!

 

[rupert130]

Here is the latest iteration.... Even better than before!

 

[workbrewingco]

I am really interested in your recipe. I have been looking for a big bread flavor beer. I see your newer recipe calls for 4 oz of hops, but I can't see the rest of it. Care to share?

 

[day_trippr]

rupert130​

Well-Known Member · From Denver
Joined Mar 2, 2014
Last seen Nov 15, 2017

 

[workbrewingco]

Yeah, was hoping for a miracle.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I would bitter with an English hop like Challenger or First Gold, Willamette is brilliant for flavour and aroma, as in Tribute.