Edwort's Kolsch compared to Vicory's Prima Pils

[brennanj11]

I was really happy and then really sad to see this information. Don't get me wrong I rep Philly area craft beer 'til I Die, but Prima Pils is not a smooth subtle Kolsch-like flavor! The last time I had it (2015 - mind you Ed's comments were from '07/'08) it was a bitter harsh and un-palatable beer not making me want to drink more than one. No hop aroma or flavor, but not beyond crisp.

Edwort's recipe for Kolsch looks simple and delicious and the picture looks every bit as refreshing as a German lager, which is what I'm going for. Also, there is a ton of great information about fermentation temperature, grain usage and flavor comparisons in that epic thread.

Let me introduce exhibit A of my cause for concern.

Page 9 from the thread "Yes, it comes across like a Bitburger Pils. Victory Prima is the BEST domestic German style pils I have ever tasted. Thanks."

Exhibit B - an entire post devoted to how 'great' Prima Pils is.

Am I crazy? Do I actually not like German Pilsner? I think an IBU of 37 and ABV of 5.2% tipped me off to the expected harsh hop-bite, maybe also the 1oz 60 minute boil? These IBUs are over my APAs!

I'm reading the flavor profile from BJCP
"Flavor: Low to medium-low hop bitterness....Neither malt nor hops prevail in the taste."

I summon O'great Ed Wort to please respond to these inaccuracies and help me from stop freaking out and brew a damn fine Kolsch in 2 weeks!

 

[d3track]

You're crazy. And, you're comparing a Kolsch and Pilz, and I'm pretty sure very different hops (pretty sure PP uses Saaz).

I'm guessing the comments are because there are late hop additions giving the floral and spice you can get from tettnanger hops, and Saaz I feel are a sharper earthy spice.

While both good, I feel as though you are comparing two very different beers...

 

[feinbera]

No, you're not crazy – Prima Pils definitely has more of a hop bite than what Americans typically expect from the style. It's not without precedent – there are Northern German pilsners (e.g., Jever) which are similarly hopped – but most of what's brewed here or imported tends more towards the Southern German style, which is the balanced or even malt-forward nectar you're imagining.

That being said, if EdWort's recipe is getting the Prima comparisons, it might not be a bad idea to dial the hops back a bit or substitute a lower-AA old-world bittering hop to adjust the recipe to your own tastes.

 

[feinbera]

You're crazy.

No, you're not crazy

...heh, ask N homebrewers a question, get N+1 different answers. You're gonna walk out of this thread with a prescription for a hearing aid, a recommendation on a guy who can work magic on your bunions, and a recipe for a smoked spelt barleywine.

 

[brennanj11]

...heh, ask N homebrewers a question, get N+1 different answers. You're gonna walk out of this thread with a prescription for a hearing aid, a recommendation on a guy who can work magic on your bunions, and a recipe for a smoked spelt barleywine.

...Hilarious

Let me clarify, yes I am a little crazy with this post, however I've been running in circles as to analyze the IBU on this recipe (37) and how accepted hop usage differs from the recipe Ed has here and BJCP. Also, another poster stated it an Ed re-affirmed it, below

Originally Posted by wfd146 View Post
"Just took a sip of the Kolsch...WOW, very good! This has been kegged for 9 days, and it tastes mighty fine, very similar to Victory's Prima Pils. I might like this one better than your pale ale... "

Edwort
"Yes, it comes across like a Bitburger Pils. Victory Prima is the BEST domestic German style pils I have ever tasted. Thanks."

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I lived in Germany (Aachen) for 3.5 years and what others said is correct, the norther german pils like Jever can be really hoppy, it was the closest thing to a pale ale I could get when I lived there! But they are awesome beers, and nothing like a pale-ale, they just have a bit of hop bite, again likely due to the type of hops used if you just comparing IBUs. Most other german pilsners are really well-balanced or even malt forward.

Kolsch should be much different than a pils, not hop forward and a slight fruitiness in the nose from the yeast. I love a good kolsch!

 

[FarmerTed]

There's a Brewing Network Sunday Session episode from a couple years ago where the owner from Victory was on. He didn't give the recipe for Prima, but he said it was around 68 ibu's, which is a far cry from a Kolsch (or probably most German beers).