How do i adjust srm as efficiency goes up?

[thood6]

So I am looking as a Black Butte Porter clone that accounts for 70 percent efficiency. Mine is closer to 80 so I reduced the amount of overall grain but kept the percentages the same. The SRM went down by 8 points. So how should I proceed in cloning this beer?

 

[eluterio]

So I am looking as a Black Butte Porter clone that accounts for 70 percent efficiency. Mine is closer to 80 so I reduced the amount of overall grain but kept the percentages the same. The SRM went down by 8 points. So how should I proceed in cloning this beer?

I would think about using a darker crystal.

Example:
Crystal 40 = 40 SRM
if you use Crystal 80 = 80 SRM. Its darker and you would use less amount.

Or toss in some something in between like crystal 60 to the 40.

I dont know the what your using post that or just enter what Ive listed above and see what you get.

 

[BryceL]

It's not only the color but the flavor of crystal malts also change, so C40 will have a completely difference flavor that C80. I think you have done the right thing by keeping your ratios the same...I honestly wouldn't worry about the SRM too much. If you know you have the right percentages of each grain I would leave it. If you are guessing at the percentages, then perhaps you could bump up the crystal another percent to get what you are looking for. Also, for a dark beer like a porter, the difference in SRM will not be as obvious if it was a lighter beer. Just my 2 cents.

 

[duboman]

IMO, 8 points of that SRM will not even really be noticeable, it will still be opaque and dark.

 

[thood6]

IMO, 8 points of that SRM will not even really be noticeable, it will still be opaque and dark.

How about flavor? I guess my question is does flavor increase as efficiency does? Or does the flavor gained from specialty grains stay the same regardless of how much conversion occurs?

 

[Yooper]

I'm a dunce maybe, but I can't figure out how scaling a recipe can change the color.

I mean, if your recipe is:

85% two-row
5% black patent
10 % crystal 20L

it's going to be the same color, whether it's 85% efficiency or 50% efficiency, or 10 gallons or 50 gallons.

I don't "get" how the color could change. I'd double check the original recipe and the percentages and water volume. It could be that the volumes are messed up or something.

 

[thood6]

I'm a dunce maybe, but I can't figure out how scaling a recipe can change the color.

I mean, if your recipe is:

85% two-row
5% black patent
10 % crystal 20L

it's going to be the same color, whether it's 85% efficiency or 50% efficiency, or 10 gallons or 50 gallons.

I don't "get" how the color could change. I'd double check the original recipe and the percentages and water volume. It could be that the volumes are messed up or something.

You are no dunce Yooper, that would be me.

What I am saying is that I have a recipe assuming 70 percent efficiency. It has approximately a base grain to specialty grain ratio of 3:1.

The problem in my understanding comes when I decrease the overall amount of grain to keep the O.G. the same with my higher efficiency. What I did was decrease my grain in a way that keeps that ratio of 3:1 the same. However the SRM is less when I do this. This makes sense to me. But I'm wondering if having less specialty grain per gravity point matters, or if I get the same flavor from the same grain bill regardless. I want to get the flavor of the clone right, so I just am confused as how to proceed.

Forgive me if I'm not clear as to what my confusion is. If its still not clear I'll post both versions of the recipes.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

 

[Yooper]

Forgive me if I'm not clear as to what my confusion is. If its still not clear I'll post both versions of the recipes.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Yes, that would definitely help us "see" what's going on!

 

[thood6]

Ok as embarrassing as it is, I left the two recipes at work so I made up a couple that would demonstrate my issue.

In these two recipes the difference may not be noticeable but if it's a strong specialty malt in a light beer I think it may be.

 

[thood6]

Here is a thread started by Kal that might help illustrate as well.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f84/srm-changes-efficiency-beer-tools-pro-148508/

 

[thood6]

Any ideas Yoop?

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

Think about the difference between where these things come from. The sugars come from converting starches in grains, color from the roasted/toasted surface of the grain. So let's follow it through. You follow the recipe exactly. Color is spot on but pre boil gravity is above target. You value gravity over color and choose to correct by topping off with water, lightening the color.

What I would do is leave everything else intact by weight and reduce the amount of base malt. Then if you're still missing a few points SRM for the base malt reduction, I'd go one of two ways. If you're concerned you've lost some of the toasty background from the base malt reduction, throw in a bit of Biscuit/Victory. If you're satisfied with the base malt reduction and just want to adjust for color some Carafa Special (dehusked) is a great way to go without much flavor impact.