Cider dilemma. What yeast is right for me? And other newbie questions.

[Unusmundus]

So the other day I picked up 23 liters of local, not from concentrate, pasteurized apple juice, after seeing a local homebrewer post a YouTube video where he took 3 liters or so of the juice, brought it JUST to a boil, dissolved 1 KG of dark brown sugar, and fermented with Coopers Ale Yeast. Now personally, I prefer my ciders dry, so I intended to swap the brown sugar out with dextrose, and ferment instead with Lalvin 1118... That is until I stumbled upon CvilleKevin's thread today about his experiments back in '08, where he stated that when using 1118 you must " keep an eye on it because it drys out fast." What exactly does this mean? I also read somewhere that 1118 doesn't bottle carbonate very well. Does anyone else have any experience using 1118 in ciders? As someone who prefers dry ciders as opposed to sweeter ones, what sugars would you recommend I use? Also, what yeast strain if not 1118, and at what temp, and for how long? Is cold crashing TOTALLY necessary? Sorry if this all seems silly, the only cider I've ever made was from a Mangrove Jack's extract kit, and it was WAYYY different. Thanks for reading.

Cheers all.

 

[Pratzie]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-juice-yeast-sugar-experiments-83060/

Check this out. Great write up of all different types of yeast and the flavors they impart on ciders.

 

[Unusmundus]

This is what I was referring to ! Haha

 

[Unusmundus]

A great read for sure, but doesn't give much in the way of directions for a newbie like myself....

 

[Pratzie]

Well what I think he's saying with that particular strain is that the yeasties chew thru any sugar in the batch, even when u drop the temp they still dry it out by eating as much sugar as possible and taking any sweetness with it.

I have no experience with that particular strain, just Nottingham, so I can't provide much advice there. But given when im reading, u might wanna hit it with a campden tablet to inhibit the yeast action. Let it sit for 24-48 hours and then pitch another strain of yeast. a very small amount of yeast, with a small amount of corn sugar and then do the pressure test where u bottle everything but also bottle in 2-3 Aquafina or 1 liter soda bottles. every day or every other day, feel how firm thebottle gets and then crack one. when u get to a bottled that is carbed to ur liking, pasteurize it.

 

[Unusmundus]

How dry does it come out with Nottingham?

 

[Pratzie]

Mine went low... I had 5 gallons cider with 2 lbs dextrose. OG was 1.062 and Nottingham took it all the way down to 1.004. I prob could have gone a little lower if I gave it more time but I needed it for a Halloween party. I back sweetened and then bottled after just 17 days. I tasted before back sweetening and it was pretty dry for my tastes but I like a bit of a sweeter cider.

Ive seen some people post that they've had it taken down to .998. Which is pretty dry.

 

[Unusmundus]

I just took a grav reading of my apple juice and it's already at 1.050... How much dextrose would you recommend adding if any? Also, could you possibly explain back sweeting for a noobie?

 

[Unusmundus]

And did you have to cold crash before bottling to prevent bottle bombs?

 

[Pratzie]

Yup. First u have to decide if u want a still or sparkling cider. The bottle bombs are an issue with sparkling cider however after this last batch im prob gonna just make still from now on.

Anyway, backsweetening is where u let it ferment out and then when the FG is stable, u add sugar to sweeten the dry cider that u have. There are multiple ways to do this from adding frozen juice concentrate which is what I do, to adding any type of sugar from table to brown to even something like splenda or stevia (not sure I spelled it right).

Anyway, once u add more sugar, and then bottle it, the remaining yeasties will eat the additional sugar causing carbonation. since ur adding a lot more then u would while bottle beer (just a few ounces), the yeasties keep eating and the carbonation level keeps rising, eventually surpassing the threshold that the bottle can take.

Again this is only if u want a sparkling cider. If u want a still cider, when fermentation is complete, u drop a campden tablet or something else that will inhibit the yeasties from carbonating the brew. Once u drop the tablet in the fermentor, usually wait 24-48 hours while it works its magic. At that point u can back sweeten all u want to get the sweetness u desire, bottle and then just serve.

OR if u have a kegging set up, u can do the campden tab thing, back sweeten to ur liking and then keg and carbonate that way. but it sounds like u want it in bottles so...

 

[Pratzie]

Oh I forgot. as far as cold crashing it helps to "clear" any brew, however it isn't necessary. But if u are going the route of a sparkling cider, u can let them carbonate somewhat and then cold crash and bottle bombs aren't a huge concern as long as u eventually drink all the cider. While cold crashing slows down the yeasties, it doesn't always completely stop them from working so u could eventually get to the point of bottle bombs although its very rare. I don't know a lot of people that have had that problem but have read a few people throw them in the fridge for months and months and then open it up one day and theres a shattered bottle.

 

[Unusmundus]

I definitely want a sparkling cider... This mean cold crashing is absolutely imperative? I don't have a fridge big enough, but my basement is around 50 F this time of year... :/

 

[Unusmundus]

Actually my basement is more like 40F this time of year.

 

[Pratzie]

not imperative IF u decide u wanna try and pasteurize the cider.

This is a thread on stovetop pasteurizing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

Its a bit risky as well, however it works.

Or once the bottles get carbonated to the point that u want, throw them all in a fridge. I think 50 will still keep the yeasties active enough to cause a bottle bomb but I can't say for sure. The last batch I made was bottled in October and I haven't found any shattered bottles in my fridge yet. I have that one set to 36 degrees year round.

 

[Unusmundus]

Bro, the juice is already pasteurized.

 

[Unusmundus]

Oh nevermind, hahah, I see what ya' mean. Well thanks for all your help dude, I think I'll just grab a a KG of dextrose, and some 1118 tomorrow and hope for the best. Once the gravity is low enough for me, I'll bottle with some priming sugar, and test a bottle every 2 or 3 days, and when the carbonation is enough for me, just either coldcrash the bottles or pasteurize them?

 

[Unusmundus]

Also, if it comes out too dry, what did you recommend to back sweeten? Just frozen cans of apple juice? Let them thaw, and stir 'em in?

 

[Pratzie]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-hard-cider-292770/

This is the recipe I went with. I used 3 cans of frozen apple juice concentrate but also the cinnamon sugar too. Again I like a sweeter cider so if u like dry, try back sweetening with one, then taste and decide if u want more.

 

[Unusmundus]

Thanks for all your help dude.

 

[Pratzie]

no prob, goodluck and lemme know how it all turns out!

 

[Unusmundus]

Will do !

 

[Unusmundus]

Alright, it's made. Ended up adding 2 and 2/3 cups of organic golden turbinado cane sugar, and 1 and 1/3 cup of dextrose. OG was around 1.055, and I ended up using Lalvin 1118. Hoping for the best !