Session APA advice

[11RileyJ]

Howdy all,

I'm looking to brew a Session APA for a friend's birthday at the end of July. Take a peek at the preliminary recipe and lemme know what you think. This will be my 5th AG batch.

Est Original Gravity: 1.042 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.009 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.3 %
Bitterness: 40.5 IBUs
Est Color: 4.7 SRM

6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.9 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.5 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.5 %
4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 13.7 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 16.3 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 6 -
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 15.9 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 7.0 min Hop 8 4.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35.49 ml] Yeast 11 -
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

I plan to whirlpool it for a half hour before I chill the wort. Some questions. Is there redundancy in the grain bill? My friend likes beers with a bit of body but I still want keep it a bit dry. Also is the Sorachi Ace going to overpower the Amarillo? I want Amarillo to be foremost but I would like something to compliment it and add some complexity. Would I get more hop flavor doing an ounce at 15 or an ounce at 10? Would it be better to do a half ounce at each?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

Justin

 

[Jimmyjim]

Looks pretty good to me.

I have been working with this style lately.

Your recipe is going to be fairly hop forward.
I have been brewing a 4.2% "APA" with 29 IBU's for comparison.

The problem I find with the low abv is that the beers tend to lack body.
And when I say lack body, I mean they tend to come out thin and what I perceive as slightly watery. My taste buds must be skewed towards maltier beers I guess. I know others have found the same problem.

Vienna and aromatic, along with cara-pils and wheat malt seem to be popular solutions to the body and maltiness issue. I have been mashing around 154-155 as well.


Cheers.....

 

[Jayhem]

I have real good results with my Pale Ale using 25% Vienna and 8oz Crystal malt in 5.0 gallon batches.

IBU's for a sessionable APA in the 4-4.5% ABV range should be 30-38

 

[hogwash]

Your grain bill looks good but it's a little hoppy for an APA. FWIW, your 40.5 IBUs doesn't match the numbers given in the ingredient list, you're at 50 according to the individual values listed beside your hop schedule. If it was my beer, I'd drop the 10 & 7 minute additions and I think I'd back off the dry hops too. 2.5 oz is a lot, especially for a pale and you'll get some good aroma from your flameout addition as well.

 

[tre9er]

With that long of a whirlpool at high 100's, nearly 200 temps, your hop additions are going to all become much more bitter and much less aromatic. Probably going to be even more bitter than you plan.

 

[hogwash]

Oh, and mash low to keep it dry. I'd do it around 150.

 

[tgmartin000]

I've always heard to mash high with session beers. You can still have a dry beer with long chain dextrins for mouth feel.

 

[hogwash]

I've always heard to mash high with session beers. You can still have a dry beer with long chain dextrins for mouth feel.

Makes sense as far as keeping the abv low but it seems like it wouldn't be dry. I'll have to read up on that.

 

[11RileyJ]

Your grain bill looks good but it's a little hoppy for an APA. FWIW, your 40.5 IBUs doesn't match the numbers given in the ingredient list, you're at 50 according to the individual values listed beside your hop schedule.

Yeah that's what I get for tinkering with the recipe that I've already put posted in the thread. The total IBU is right I just forgot to adjust individual IBU totals per addition as I tweaked it down.

 

[11RileyJ]

With that long of a whirlpool at high 100's, nearly 200 temps, your hop additions are going to all become much more bitter and much less aromatic. Probably going to be even more bitter than you plan.

Indeed. I'm considering dropping some or all of the aroma additions or moving them to the whirlpool. Thanks for pointing that out.

Justin

 

[11RileyJ]

...I think I'd back off the dry hops too. 2.5 oz is a lot, especially for a pale and you'll get some good aroma from your flameout addition as well.

Thanks. I was basing the dry hop additions on Tasty McDole's session recipe. I think I'll dry hop with 1-1.5 and put an ounce in a tea strainer in the keg.

Here's the link to Tasty's recipe.

http://drinkdrakes.com/site/tag/tasty-mcdole/

J

 

[tre9er]

I would do the 10m hops with about 15-20m left in the whirlpool and the 0m hops with about 5m left in the whirlpool. I WOULD dry-hop in the keg. It's impossible to beat the aroma of a keg dry-hop.

 

[hogwash]

Thanks. I was basing the dry hop additions on Tasty McDole's session recipe. I think I'll dry hop with 1-1.5 and put an ounce in a tea strainer in the keg.

Here's the link to Tasty's recipe.

http://drinkdrakes.com/site/tag/tasty-mcdole/

J

He doesn't have any other aroma additions but the dry hop, so there it would be fine. I would think that much dry hop AND a flameout addition would be a little much and really kind of a waste of hops.

 

[11RileyJ]

I have real good results with my Pale Ale using 25% Vienna and 8oz Crystal malt in 5.0 gallon batches.

Which crystal malt do you use? I was thinking 10.

 

[Jayhem]

Which crystal malt do you use? I was thinking 10.

I like my pale ale dark blonde - copper so I use Crystal 40 or 60 depending on what I have on hand. Crystal 10 would be fine if you want it to be super light SRM.

 

[11RileyJ]

I would do the 10m hops with about 15-20m left in the whirlpool and the 0m hops with about 5m left in the whirlpool. I WOULD dry-hop in the keg. It's impossible to beat the aroma of a keg dry-hop.

Thanks for the input. Is there a way to roughly determine the amount of IBUs these additions will create? I'm still green using Beer Smith and I currently don't see any whirlpool options.

J

 

[tre9er]

Thanks for the input. Is there a way to roughly determine the amount of IBUs these additions will create? I'm still green using Beer Smith and I currently don't see any whirlpool options.

J

I don't really do long whirlpools, so I can't comment on that. All I know is that hops at near-boiling temps are doing what they normally do, regardless of the fact that your temps are *slightly* lower than a full boil. So you could treat your whirlpool similarly to an extension of the boil.

Others feel free to chime-in and fill-in the blanks/correct my info if I'm off base.

Here are two posts on probrewer I found:

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?19619
http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?21498-Isomerization-temps

 

[tgmartin000]

Makes sense as far as keeping the abv low but it seems like it wouldn't be dry. I'll have to read up on that.

From what I understand, from listening to the Jamil show, the long chain dextrins are not very sweet, and you can have a malty beer that is still dry.

 

[hogwash]

From what I understand, from listening to the Jamil show, the long chain dextrins are not very sweet, and you can have a malty beer that is still dry.

Do you remember which show that was?

 

[tgmartin000]

Do you remember which show that was?

Hmmm....he's actually said it on a bunch of shows. There's a sunday session show about session beers that has a lot of good info.....it also could have been on brew strong. Otherwise I'm not sure.

 

[tre9er]

From what I understand, from listening to the Jamil show, the long chain dextrins are not very sweet, and you can have a malty beer that is still dry.

It might not be sweet but it will still have mouthfeel. Dextrins are a sugar, even if not sweet to the tongue. Think of the difference between the consistency of syrup vs. water, just the consistency. More dextrins=thicker beer.

 

[hogwash]

Hmmm....he's actually said it on a bunch of shows. There's a sunday session show about session beers that has a lot of good info.....it also could have been on brew strong. Otherwise I'm not sure.

I'll see what I can dig up. Love listening to those shows.

 

[tgmartin000]

It might not be sweet but it will still have mouthfeel. Dextrins are a sugar, even if not sweet to the tongue. Think of the difference between the consistency of syrup vs. water, just the consistency. More dextrins=thicker beer.

Right. I associate a dry beer with a beer that lacks sweetness. From what I understand, you can still have a dry malty beer

 

[tgmartin000]

I'll see what I can dig up. Love listening to those shows.

Not only are they hilarious but packed with info. I always listen to the style show before I brew.