Hot Break - Cold Break : What the eff is it?

[Pratzie]

Ok I keep reading from time to time about break. Hot break, cold break, etc. Everytime I think I have an idea, someone posts something here that makes me think I got it wrong.

What the hell is it? Looking for info on this. Some seem to consider it part of the trub, some don't. Some seem to think its ok to leave in the bottom of the kettle, some don't. Some say it is part of the reason for cloudy beer, some argue that it isn't. Seriously, what gives and why am I reading conflicting things on this.

 

[Homercidal]

Without getting too technical, Hot Break is when proteins from the grain are boiled and they coagulate into larger chunks. I can be a significant portion of the trub if you do not separate from the beer before fermentation. However many people feel that hot break in general is not detrimental to your beer if you follow proper fermentation schedule, meaning don't let the beer sit on the break material for too long (many weeks).

I'm not really sure what cold break material is I treat it the same way: I don't worry about it.

Normally I try and siphon the wort off the break material, but I've also brewed just pouring the wort into a bucket and pitching yeast. No problems.

Frankly I'm surprised someone with more knowledge hasn't responded already.

 

[Yooper]

Ok I keep reading from time to time about break. Hot break, cold break, etc. Everytime I think I have an idea, someone posts something here that makes me think I got it wrong.

What the hell is it? Looking for info on this. Some seem to consider it part of the trub, some don't. Some seem to think its ok to leave in the bottom of the kettle, some don't. Some say it is part of the reason for cloudy beer, some argue that it isn't. Seriously, what gives and why am I reading conflicting things on this.

Break material is gobs of coagulated proteins.

Hot break is when the foam on the kettle suddenly "breaks" and disappears, and the wort no longer threatens to boil over. After that, when you look at the wort, it looks a bit like egg drop soup, with tiny threads of break material.

Cold break occurs when the wort is chilled quickly, and it's bigger and fluffier pieces of break material. It looks like "goobers", for lack of a better and less gross word.

Anyway, "hot break" material is hard to strain out, as it's very fine. I've heard Jamil Zainasheff say it's best to remove it as it can create off flavors, but it goes right through a strainer or bazooka tube so I haven't ever had good luck with removing it, except in rare cases when some leaf hops set up as a sort of "filter" first on my bazooka tube. I haven't noticed a bit of difference in the end result, but I've never really left a beer in primary more than about 2-3 weeks so I can't say if it ever would impact the flavor.

Cold break can more easily be strained out, as it's bigger, but for many of us who have counterflow chillers, the wort goes into the fermenter when it's chilled, so the cold break goes along with it. My understanding of cold break is that it's this group of proteins that are responsible for chill haze, and that's why a good cold break is so important. I've never heard that it is bad for the flavor of the beer in the end. It is very very fluffy in the fermenter, but then compacts down with the trub and doesn't float around so you can get very clear beer even with all of the cold break in the fermenter.

 

[Pratzie]

Break material is gobs of coagulated proteins.

Hot break is when the foam on the kettle suddenly "breaks" and disappears, and the wort no longer threatens to boil over. After that, when you look at the wort, it looks a bit like egg drop soup, with tiny threads of break material.

Cold break occurs when the wort is chilled quickly, and it's bigger and fluffier pieces of break material. It looks like "goobers", for lack of a better and less gross word.

Anyway, "hot break" material is hard to strain out, as it's very fine. I've heard Jamil Zainasheff say it's best to remove it as it can create off flavors, but it goes right through a strainer or bazooka tube so I haven't ever had good luck with removing it, except in rare cases when some leaf hops set up as a sort of "filter" first on my bazooka tube. I haven't noticed a bit of difference in the end result, but I've never really left a beer in primary more than about 2-3 weeks so I can't say if it ever would impact the flavor.

Cold break can more easily be strained out, as it's bigger, but for many of us who have counterflow chillers, the wort goes into the fermenter when it's chilled, so the cold break goes along with it. My understanding of cold break is that it's this group of proteins that are responsible for chill haze, and that's why a good cold break is so important. I've never heard that it is bad for the flavor of the beer in the end. It is very very fluffy in the fermenter, but then compacts down with the trub and doesn't float around so you can get very clear beer even with all of the cold break in the fermenter.

Im actually happy you responded cuz one of things i was confused about was your post earlier about the clarity for an IPA. You said good hot break and good cold break. Does that mean you get a real strong rolling boil early on and keep it once the foam goes back down? And with the cold break, does a good cold break mean you chill it fast?

Im only asking cuz ive seen alot of people talking about separating the hot break trub and leaving it i the fermentor. I have a dip tube from Brewhardware.com and i tried angling it a bit and then doing the whirlpool trick but a bunch of it still got sucked in anyway. I just assumed the cold break was what was left over from the hot break that got into the fermenter.

Its making sense with what your saying because this last batch was the first time i used my CFC and i took it from 200 to high 50's by the time it got to the carboy. A few hours after i pitched it def took on that snakey fluffy "goober" characteristic that your talking about as well so im assuming what i did was good?

 

[Yooper]

Its making sense with what your saying because this last batch was the first time i used my CFC and i took it from 200 to high 50's by the time it got to the carboy. A few hours after i pitched it def took on that snakey fluffy "goober" characteristic that your talking about as well so im assuming what i did was good?

Yeah, that was good!

I get a nice "hot break" by bringing it up to boiling, and not letting it boil over (mostly ) while it's foaming. Once it stops foaming, it happens suddenly. One minute, it looks like it's going to volcano out of the pot, and the next moment the foam disappears. That's the "hot break". If you put some wort on your spoon at that point, you'll find tiny globs of the "egg drop soup". Once this happens, you will not foam up again.

At that point, you can turn your heat down to maintain a rolling boil without rocking the kettle.

The cold break is just as you described!

 

[Pratzie]

Excellent i know exactly what u mean now when the foam subsides and what u mean by egg drop soup.

Thanks again for the clarification!

 

[unionrdr]

I always thought cold break looked like wet popcorn myself.

 

[JohanMk1]

Thanks to the OP for asking and thanks to Yooper for giving us a clear definition.

Yesterdays PM brew definitely had a brilliant and clear hot break that I have not experienced before.

 

[scubasteve03]

I always thought cold break looked like wet popcorn myself.

I always thought it looked like a soggy sponge. Wet popcorn is a better description.

 

[scubasteve03]

Thanks to the OP for asking and thanks to Yooper for giving us a clear definition.

Yesterdays PM brew definitely had a brilliant and clear hot break that I have not experienced before.

I've noticed that not all hot breaks are the same. Even with the same recipe. I don't know what the variables are but when I have a really good hot break the beer turns out really well.

 

[Pratzie]

Yooper, or anyone else who might have experience with it. Do u use a hop spider? Ive noticed that's a lot of the trub at the bottom since I have only used hop pellets so far. Just wondering if using one of those would help with the hot break/trub prob at all.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, or anyone else who might have experience with it. Do u use a hop spider? Ive noticed that's a lot of the trub at the bottom since I have only used hop pellets so far. Just wondering if using one of those would help with the hot break/trub prob at all.

I do sometimes. I have an issue with my pump clogging now if I use leaf hops without one, unless I use my bazooka tube. If I use my bazooka tube, pellet hops clog the bazooka tube (but not my pump!).

So if I'm using both pellet hops and leaf hops, I will bag one or the other in the hops spider. I will normally not use a bag or a bazooka tube with only pellet hops, though, as they disintegrate well and just leave a little sludge on the bottom, plus they don't clog my pump so I don't worry about them.

How's that for an "It depends!" answer?!?!

In other words, I use a hops spider if I have to, and if I have a ton of loose hops.

 

[Pratzie]

So pretty much anytime I use the hop pellets im gonna get that sludge then? I just dunno if I should spend the money on a SS one if its not gonna prevent that.

 

[Yooper]

So pretty much anytime I use the hop pellets im gonna get that sludge then? I just dunno if I should spend the money on a SS one if its not gonna prevent that.

No, you could put them in a hops spider if it bothers you. I just don't care.