Whirlpool Aeration?

[McCuckerson]

Hi folks!

Long time, no talk... Anyway, I have been experimenting lately with different yeast pitching techniques. I use a whirlpool chiller much like the great Jamil's. When the wort hits 100ish, I pitch the yeast into the whirlpool and the wort gently circulates/aerates to the lower 70s. It takes about 20min from there. The inoculated wort is then transferred to a bucket for a 2-week fermentation @ 65ish.

With this technique, the yeast takes off quick and finishes quick. I have had to clean the lid of my ferm-keezer several times and use blow-off tubes. and...The beer has been spectacular:rockin:

What do y'all think of this technique and why do we need oxy/aeratation if this is viable?

Happy Memorial Day and a big "THANK YOU" to all of the vets out there. We couldn't do stuff like brew beer and grow hops if it wasn't for you guys and gals!
McC

 

[g-star]

1. Pitching that hot then cooling down is a recipe for off-flavors, fusels, and excessive esters.

2. No method of "aeration"will ever get you to the correct O2 levels. Pure oxygen is really the way to go.

So, in my opinion, this is poor practice and not the optimal way to make the best beer possible.

 

[McCuckerson]

1. Pitching that hot then cooling down is a recipe for off-flavors, fusels, and excessive esters.

2. No method of "aeration"will ever get you to the correct O2 levels. Pure oxygen is really the way to go.

So, in my opinion, this is poor practice and not the optimal way to make the best beer possible.

G-star,
Yes I understand those are the "textbook" answers, however as previously stated: the beer has turned out spectacular. Good point on the o2 levels, but I believe correct yeast handling and pitch amounts negate the need for pure o2. (think Reinheitsgebot...)

I guess I was looking for some conversation as to the viability of this process.

 

[Hex23]

1. Pitching that hot then cooling down is a recipe for off-flavors, fusels, and excessive esters.

2. No method of "aeration"will ever get you to the correct O2 levels. Pure oxygen is really the way to go.

So, in my opinion, this is poor practice and not the optimal way to make the best beer possible.

I doubt the yeast have any time to produce those flavors in the 5 minutes it takes to go from 100F to 70F. But why wouldn't you wait till you get to 70F to pitch. But like OP said, if it's producing good beers, it must be fine.

One other concern I would consider is cross contamination. I'd think you might need to clean the chiller pretty well to avoid transferring yeast from one batch to another. But maybe it's not that big of a concern.

 

[Hex23]

But why wouldn't you wait till you get to 70F to pitch.

100F for that duration generally won't kill yeast, but perhaps it culls the weak unhealthy ones!

 

[McCuckerson]

100F for that duration generally won't kill yeast, but perhaps it culls the weak unhealthy ones!

Right, is the 100f causing the yeast to take off or the aeration of the whirlpool or both?

I guess the 100f would cull all yeast not just the mutants...

 

[McCuckerson]

I doubt the yeast have any time to produce those flavors in the 5 minutes it takes to go from 100F to 70F. But why wouldn't you wait till you get to 70F to pitch. But like OP said, if it's producing good beers, it must be fine.

One other concern I would consider is cross contamination. I'd think you might need to clean the chiller pretty well to avoid transferring yeast from one batch to another. But maybe it's not that big of a concern.

Hex,

I thought about that, but the chiller is in the boil for at least 15min prior so there is no chance of cross/contamination.

 

[Hex23]

Right, is the 100f causing the yeast to take off or the aeration of the whirlpool or both?

I guess the 100f would cull all yeast not just the mutants...

The kill conditions are a function of temperature and time. I think typical "quick" kill temps for beer yeast would be close to 140F. Since some dry yeast are re-hydrated near 100F, I doubt 100F would kill the yeast.

 

[Hex23]

Hex,

I thought about that, but the chiller is in the boil for at least 15min prior so there is no chance of cross/contamination.

I see what you're saying ... I ignored the fact that you're going to be re-sterilizing on the subsequent batch.

 

[biestie]

Right, is the 100f causing the yeast to take off or the aeration of the whirlpool or both?

I guess the 100f would cull all yeast not just the mutants...

I'll take your word for it that you're making good beer, but there really isn't any reason why it'd be better pitching at 100F during the whirlpool, than waiting until it's down to 65 and pitching in the fermenter. The oxygen content is going to be the same no matter what temp you pitch at. Further, I don't think you're really getting much oxygen into the wort at 100F, because the solubility drops a lot as temp goes up. (I'm not 100% sure about that last part, but reasonably certain).

Basically, I'll go back to my first statement. I don't think there's any good reason why it'd be better to pitch at 100 during the whirlpool, and I'll go further and say there are reasons not to.

 

[theveganbrewer]

Hi folks!

Long time, no talk... Anyway, I have been experimenting lately with different yeast pitching techniques. I use a whirlpool chiller much like the great Jamil's. When the wort hits 100ish, I pitch the yeast into the whirlpool and the wort gently circulates/aerates to the lower 70s. It takes about 20min from there. The inoculated wort is then transferred to a bucket for a 2-week fermentation @ 65ish.

With this technique, the yeast takes off quick and finishes quick. I have had to clean the lid of my ferm-keezer several times and use blow-off tubes. and...The beer has been spectacular:rockin:

What do y'all think of this technique and why do we need oxy/aeratation if this is viable?

Happy Memorial Day and a big "THANK YOU" to all of the vets out there. We couldn't do stuff like brew beer and grow hops if it wasn't for you guys and gals!
McC

Yeast take off once they finish the lag phase. You're not seeing any flavor problems because for the most part, no flavors are produced in lag phase, which can be anywhere from 3-16 hours after pitch. Esters are also not produced at this time.

Yeast starting quickly isn't necessarily good, because it starts once the oxygen has been absorbed or once its gotten all it needs. In that case, the remaining CO2 scrubs the rest of the oxygen out of the wort during fermentation. So if you under oxygenate, the yeast might not reproduce properly and could get fermenting fast enough.

Blow offs are not a good thing per se. They are more a function of protein composition of the wort, type of yeast, and feel temps. Having a blowoff does not indicate you are having a good fermentation. You might, but its not an indication.