when is it not beer?

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Yeah, but if you make yourself great spaghetti sauce from scratch on a regular basis, would you ever want to "try" to experiment to see if you could make good sauce using ketchup instead of fresh tomatoes?

I have done that, because Rachel Ray suggested it, used ketchup and tomato soup instead of the fresh tomatoes, it was awful. Even hubby didn't like it and he eats nearly anything, told me don't try any more Rachel Ray recipes, please.
 
so, I don't pretend to speak for others, but I think I've learned here , that there are different types of experimentation that might require different approaches to limit ones exposure to producing larger rather than smaller undesireable outcomes. based on one's experience level, one may be able to predict a "flavor profile" when substituting one ingredient (hops/yeast) for another. as opposed to another type of experiment where you add a completely unusual ingredient (bananas into bobbilyn's sphagetti sauce). for the more exotic substitutions, I think it has been suggested on this or other threads, that one split the product in secondary into smaller containers and expose them to these exotics. I guess that way one can try more things, gain experience with flavor profiles, without dumping 5 gallons if the product is unpleasant to the hb.
 
rklinck said:
Nope, I understand the principle that you can use these ingredients. My question is whether it ultimately makes the beer better more often than not.

As you point out, people have been brewing for a very long time. And over time, the "community" wisdom has refined the process. (Funny how we are actually getting back to the original point of this thread). I think that most people would say that beer is a beverage that starts with some sort of malt, has some hops, and has some yeast. I know this wasn't always the case, but over time beer brewers have refined the process to get us to this point in history. I tend to think that these refinements have improved beer over time through a process akin to natural selection in the animal kingdom. Survival of the fittest has resulted in the best practices (and types of recipes) being accepted and replicated. Less successful practices and recipes have fallen by the wayside. This is not to say that interesting things have not been lost without good reason (e.g., some beer styles have nearly died out and are making a resurgence). But, I think that beer has been evolving and improving over time. And the thousands of years of evolution have brought us to the point that we use malt (generally wheat, barley, corn, and/or rice), hops, yeast, and water as the basic ingredients in beer.

I understand that Dogfish Head is doing interesting stuff by researching some of the long dead "beer" recipes and trying to recreate them. But, I can say that I do not enjoy these beverages. I would much prefer to brew myself an excellent stout or excellent pale ale than to make Midas Touch. This, of course, is a matter of taste.

To use your cooking example, I love watching the show "Chopped" because it is interesting to see what the chefs can come up with from the sometimes crazy ingredients. That being said, if given the choice, I think I would enjoy a meal that any one of those chefs makes with more traditional ingredients more than what they come up with on Chopped at least 80% of the time.

My gut hunch is that the same is true with beer. Sure, I could replace some of my malted barley with Grape Nuts (which is made with barley flower). I understand the concept, my question is whether doing so will normally make a better beer. This is why my original question (which you still have not answered) was how often you found that your experimentation made the beer better than it would have been if you had stuck to traditional ingredients.

Don't forget - community wisdom included working with asbestos fibers without a mask and putting lead in gasoline!

My goal for the summer is to make multiple versions of hot pepper saisons. I had an amazing chipotle raspberry sauce cream cheese appetizer one Christmas - that smokey, sweet, fruity flavor (sans dairy) seems like it'll be amazing. I'm also going to try the mother of all spicy beers - the Trinidad Tobago Scorpion Pepper Saison (with killer bee honey). Granted neither of these are too far off the beaten path, but neither is using tortilla chips. Fritos on the other hand seems like a bad idea - anything that burns that long is bound to kill head retention.

Btw - when is the best time to have a cold? 30-60 minutes after drinking asparagus beer! ::rimshot::
 
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