Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
1.5 FWH, 1.5 oz at 90, 1 @ 20, .5 @15, .5 @10, .5 @ 5, .5@0. Yep, the british C135-165 was from MoreBeer. Like where you are heading with your hop schedule...more aroma and more bitterness are needed with this beer. The malt has a lot of sweetness that needs something to counterbalance it. Good luck!
 
stonebrewer said:
The recipe from this last batch (brewed on 3/9/13) was 24 lbs of pale, 1.5 lbs of both special B and C150. I toss in 4 oz of carapils. I mashed pretty high, between 154-156F. There is a half pound of chinook in this (I think, gotta go find my notes), where I did FWH and hop bursting as well as a 90 minute addition for bittering. I do 60-75 minute mashes, single infusion, recirculating over reheat. I always boil Stone clone brews for 90 minutes, and I usually add some gypsum to my water. Irish moss to clarify, and yeast energizer in the last 15 minutes of the boil. I do 2 liter starters and use 1 minute of O2 before I pitch. Contemplating doing O2 12 hours after I pitch instead, but in any case I get visible signs of fermentation at about the 3 hour mark. I have played with just special B and just crystal. I have used British C135-165 which people have told me was "spot on" for the malt. At this point, I am just tweaking the crystal to see what differences I can make with them. I will probably brew this for another year before I say enough and settle on the recipe I like the most. None of them have disappointed me yet. Only regret I have is that I almost always keg. I kinda wish I had bottled each batch and tried more side by side comparisons, but to be fair I don't know that comparing aged versions would really tell me what I am looking for in the clone versus not cloned department. I still think the difference is in the yeast, but am not giving up on a malt difference just yet.

Cheers!
Click to expand...


Was this for 10 gallons?
 
Yes it was a 10 gallon batch. Turned out pretty well...flavor is a little off w/ respect to malt. I am hearing that Stone uses C175 for this with just a touch of Special B. Anyone know where you can get C175? I think the C135-165/SB I have been using may be a closer approximation that the C150/SB above. Need to do another batch to see...which I will in a couple of months. This is a fun and easy brew to make and drink, and I will keep on brewing it and have it on tap at all times. One of my favorites!

Cheers!
 
stonebrewer said:
Yes it was a 10 gallon batch. Turned out pretty well...flavor is a little off w/ respect to malt. I am hearing that Stone uses C175 for this with just a touch of Special B. Anyone know where you can get C175? I think the C135-165/SB I have been using may be a closer approximation that the C150/SB above. Need to do another batch to see...which I will in a couple of months. This is a fun and easy brew to make and drink, and I will keep on brewing it and have it on tap at all times. One of my favorites!

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I cannot find anything for C 175, maybe they roast the C-150 in house....

Week after Mother's Day I brew my own. I thought I read they add athanum hops in a small amount? Never brewed with those before so dunno what they taste like. Heard this was supposed to be a single hop brew, but read that athanum somewhere in here might be used in a small amount, but where? (bittering or flame-out)? Going to do an extended hop stand for sure, along with a runoff through my hop rocket with chinook.

I think based on recent posts, that should modify my grist - currently looks like this-
87.2% 2 row
8.8% C-150
1.6% Breiss Special Roast
1.6% Special B
0.8% CaraPils

Trying to shore up my final recipe specs and order any British Crystal for instance that I might not have on hand before brewing in 10-11 days.

Thanks

TD
 
I am hearing that Stone uses C175 for this with just a touch of Special B.

Where did you hear this from?
 
Ahtanum is one of my favorite hops and they definitely use it in their Pale Ale. It is a dual purpose hop, so it could be used for bittering but I prefer it as an aroma hop. I have thought about throwing a bit of that in at the end of boil myself, so I think your post may spur me to do that next time. Let us know how yours turns out!

Cheers!
 
stonebrewer said:
I heard it from my brewing buddy who heard it from one of the BN podcasts...I will ask him which one when I see him again.
Click to expand...

It seems this is part of the mystery of AB! Maybe the guy in the podcast read that here!!

It also seems to jive with what taste tests have indicated as well.
The supposed confirmed c-150 and sack of such labelled grain from photos at the brewery are interesting, as is the hint of c150 use based on other reports.
The flavor imparted by c150 per taste testers following the recipes on this thread seems not to be as close as the darker crystal and SB combination, even in spite of outright denial by a previous source.

I think with the widespread distribution of AB, and the demand for production, that this is probably brewed frequently by Stone.
I find it odd that by all indications c150 is probably the "right" specialty malt, but that when brewed with c150 it doesn't taste like the stone product.
I doubt this is due to differences of scale, mashing temps, or other cause given the number of attempts hat have been made (in this thread alone).
So is there deliberate misdirection and deception? Are they asking for their malt to be packaged in mislabeled bags (or is it a mix of malt) Are they re-kilning it to darker
temps?
Hard to know. But I'd like to see the BN podcast and hear what other comments are in there about the grain bill.

I think I am going to consider just brewing mine as is and getting close. That's good enough for me, and adding little variances kind of make it my own in a way.

TD
 
I've also wondered about Ahtanum hops - only because I know they like it & use it in their pale ale. And when you (or at least me) smell & taste a fresh AB, there sometimes just seems to be something "more than Chinook" in there....maybe just a tad thrown in there late during whirlpool?
It would kinda make sense - a simple 2 malts / 2 hops recipe....or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself :)
 
stonebrewer said:
1.5 FWH, 1.5 oz at 90, 1 @ 20, .5 @15, .5 @10, .5 @ 5, .5@0. Yep, the british C135-165 was from MoreBeer. Like where you are heading with your hop schedule...more aroma and more bitterness are needed with this beer. The malt has a lot of sweetness that needs something to counterbalance it. Good luck!
Click to expand...

So my hop schedule is looking like this:

13% Chinook Pellets
2oz @ 90
1.5oz @ 20,15,10,5,0
then a hop stand for 30 minutes after immersion cooling to a temp that I've not decided on yet but maybe 120F with 1 oz Athanum plus 3.5 oz Chinook.
Then run through the Hop Rocket with whole Chinook hops (3 oz is the max capacity)
Then dry hop with a 2 week and a one week addition of 1.5 oz each.

Am thinking of adding an extra half ounce to the 90 minute addition to ensure adequate bittering.

this is for 11 gallons. Beersmith predicts 91.4 IBU

TD
 
The one I am drinking now I think it as close as it gets bitterness wise, and BS yields just over 75 IBU. You will have one hoppy brewski, TD! Sounds tasty. I am swimming in hops aroma right now. Kegged my Zombie Dust, one keg with 4 oz citra, the other with 4 oz mosaic and 1 oz citra, and about a gallon with Amarillo. The house has never smelled soooo good!

Cheers!
 
So I'm building my starter today for next week. Only one 25% viability vial of wlp007 so giving myself plenty of time for a two stage 2L then 5L for building a yeast army.


I found about 12 oz of British Crystal on hand, so I'm going to use that for part of the C150 amount, which conveniently is 1 pound 12 oz, thus 1 pound of c150 plus the British crystal. Also going to do some special B. What is the consensus on Breiss Special Roast as well? Had planned on using some of that as well, but having second thoughts.

TD
 
Per a BN interview with Jeff Bagby, a guy who brewed AB while working at Stone, it did not contain Special B and C150 was the only crystal malt. Past tense so it may have changed from many years ago. Jeff was crystal clear about the Special B in the 2011 podcast.
 
I tasted mine at racking after 5 days of dry hopping in the primary.


Great brew. The special B seems out of place to me. Maybe the special roast is also out of place. Color perhaps a tad too dark, though hard to be sure without a side by side.

My grain bill:

27 1/4 # 2 row
2 3/4# C-150
1/2# special B
1/2# Breiss special roast
1/4# carapils

FG 1.017. (Isn't that what the commercial brew is?)

Will post my tasting comments from side by side once finished and packaged.

TD
 
My sample I tested of the original was 1.018. I'm drinking my batch and it is one of the best beers I've ever brewed. I need to go out and get a bottle to so a side by side as well. I'll post my thoughts on it when I do.
 
CraigT said:
My sample I tested of the original was 1.018. I'm drinking my batch and it is one of the best beers I've ever brewed. I need to go out and get a bottle to so a side by side as well. I'll post my thoughts on it when I do.
Click to expand...

Good to know I nailed the gravity then.
I thought the measles half pound of special B really stood out in the room temp uncarbonated hydro sample. Can't wait to try a side by side!

It's probably going to be a while, as I have no empty kegs, and no way I'm bottling 9 gallons, looks like all those hops soaked up some precious beer, I was shooting for 10.

I might consider adding another dose of leaf dry hops in the secondary, but its always a PITA to clean them out of the carboys.

TD
 
CraigT said:
In mine I brewed yesterday I used 5% sb and 5% crystal 135-165. And 11.4 aa chinook 4 oz at 90 and an ounce each at 20, 15, 10, 5 and 0 for about 105 ibu. I used half 007 and half 002. I will let you all know in about a month how it turns out.
Click to expand...

So I finally got to doing a side by side with the real AB and my two batches today. The real AB has more of a lingering bitterness and more aroma than mine. I was surprised mine didn't have more with how I hopped and I didn't use a hop spider because I really wanted to get all I could outta my hops. In my opinion, the malt part is very close. But mine has less bitterness and aroma so the sweetness stands out a little more. The 007 and 002 batch actually finished close, 1.018 and 1.020. I prefer the less sweet 007.
 
image-841760469.jpg

Also the color was very closer. The real AB just was clearer, it's on the left
 
The real AB has more of a lingering bitterness and more aroma than mine. - same here. The side-by-side brought that to light. I really don't think it's Special B but another Crystal malt. While very close, it's just not there.

I'm going to do a Double Bastard next.
 
ultravista said:
The real AB has more of a lingering bitterness and more aroma than mine. - same here. The side-by-side brought that to light. I really don't think it's Special B but another Crystal malt. While very close, it's just not there.

I'm going to do a Double Bastard next.
Click to expand...

You guys have me wanting to try mine already! Too bad no kegs to carb it up in. All are full.
I am hoping to nail the hop aroma with my 140°F post boil hop stand for 30 min. I used 1 oz ahtanum in addition to the 3-4 oz chinook for that. No hop bags, and no spiders. just a boatload of loose pellets. looked like this (same volume of hops but this was actually a different brew-see pic). did not do FWH, the real AB I find to be incredibly bitter. I wonder if part of issue is water hardness? Carbonate can lend harshness, sulfate can lend a crisper feel I've read. I don't know if my palate is sophisticated enough to discern such a subtle difference- i am proabably not worthy enough... As far as the malt, I thought my hydro sample that the scant special B was out of place, could be due to temperature and lack of carbonation. I really cant wait to try it side by side.
I think for my next effort (probably not for at least 7 or more months) I might try using the British crystal malt blend from more beer for a single specialty malt, or just use c-150

TD

image-4048377233.jpg
 
Me thinks C120 or 150 is the key. My next batch, the Double Bastard is 90.7% 2-row and 9.3% Crystal 120. About 21.5 pounds of grain total.

I'll probably round it out to 90/10.
 
ultravista said:
Me thinks C120 or 150 is the key. My next batch, the Double Bastard is 90.7% 2-row and 9.3% Crystal 120. About 21.5 pounds of grain total.

I'll probably round it out to 90/10.
Click to expand...

That's for 5 gallons! That is a double bastard!! That's a Lot of grain, I do 11 g in my 15 gal tun, and most batches are around the 20-25 pound mark.
What is the ABV and OG target??

TD
 
ultravista: where did you get your DB recipe? I have searched many times and have not found on that I think might be close. That is one tasty brew and being able to approximate that on a home brew level would be awesome!

I am leaning towards the all british crystal on this for the next time I do AB. I have used it in the mix many times and I think it might just get us closest, malt wise.

I was looking through my kegs last night for something I am cellaring, to grab a sample to see where it is at, when I found a full keg of AB clone that I forgot about!! I tell you I did a little happy dance after that find! Something tells me I am brewing too much...grin!
 
stonebrewer said:
ultravista: ! Something tells me I am brewing too much...grin!
Click to expand...

Nah, maybe you just not drinking enough!

Had a commercial bottle after work of AB. I think if you let it warm a bit, the flavor improves and easier to discern malt notes.

TD
 
Just conjecture but lately I have been wondering if perhaps a small part of the character of AB is carmelization like in a scotch ale. IIRC The lore said it started out as a pale ale experiment so I wondered if maybe they just accidentally boiled it down a lot. Might be way off but if I try another clone I might try boiling down some first runnings a bit. Certainly don't think it would ruin the beer anyhow.
 
Since I mash in a bag (voile), there's a lot of liquid left over from the sparge. Regardless of beer, I always collect the runnings after compressing the bag then condense it down through a long boil.

I've taken 7 quarts down to less than or close to 1. The gravity of this stuff is far off my refractometer. When it's thick enough, I dump it into the keggle.

What effect it has ... I don't know. It tastes great and super concentrated so it can't be bad.
 
ultravista said:
The real AB has more of a lingering bitterness and more aroma than mine. - same here. The side-by-side brought that to light. I really don't think it's Special B but another Crystal malt. While very close, it's just not there.

I'm going to do a Double Bastard next.
Click to expand...

Just tried mine. I'm confident that its special B. malt taste is exact. More hops, though.
 
Have you done a side by side? I thought it was Special B too until I had them side by side. Only difference with mine was the malt was a little off. I have the hops to the point where they are indistinguishable. I used FWHing with Chinook and a 60 minute and I cannot detect any difference in the hops now. Malt, well that is another story. I talked to Tasty at NHC and asked if they were going to retry this. He wasn't very specific but I got the feeling from talking to him the Jamil wants to move on, so I thinks its up to us to perfect this one...
 
I plan to keg mine this week and try, hydro samples left me thinking the special B was out of place. It been in the secondary for at least 6 weeks, so I hop I haven't lost that wonderful hop aroma. I also added some Breiss special malt on a whim, and some ahtanum hops. I can post my recipe when I post my taste impressions.

Ill post my impressions along with a side by side when mine is chilled and fully carbonated.
 
stonebrewer said:
Have you done a side by side? I thought it was Special B too until I had them side by side. Only difference with mine was the malt was a little off. I have the hops to the point where they are indistinguishable. I used FWHing with Chinook and a 60 minute and I cannot detect any difference in the hops now. Malt, well that is another story. I talked to Tasty at NHC and asked if they were going to retry this. He wasn't very specific but I got the feeling from talking to him the Jamil wants to move on, so I thinks its up to us to perfect this one...
Click to expand...

No, I haven't done side by side, but I love this beer and have its flavor seered into my brain :D Perhaps I would notice a difference side by side, but when I tasted it, my reaction was "Why is this Stone Arrogant Bastard not bitter enough?" And I answered myself by saying, "More Hops Next Time!"
 
I think my version is probably ready to try now. I'm going to pick up a commercial bottle tonight, funny that the last one seemed to vanish...

The question I have is dry hop yes/no?

Oh, and I'm planning to try and visit the brewery in October. Shooting for 31st, but realize that's Halloween, so dunno if there might some special event or something. I hear tickets are first come first serve, and I won't be able to make it over there until the afternoon. To anyone who has visited before, any suggestions or recommendations on getting in for tour? How packed is it, are folks lined up, etc? Seems like they probably get about 125 visitors per day if they get 50000 per year, and accounting to days they are closed...

TD
 
I seem to recall the answer to how much to dry hop being "More than you would expect."

From all the attempts (forgive if it has been addressed but I'm not reading all 650 posts) I've seen it's mostly Chinook all over the place. One of the few bits of verifiable information about this recipe is that it was originally formulated as a SMaSH recipe. The BN shows dialed in on it by infusing Stone IPA with tinctures of various malts and hops and such. Perhaps the same method could work for determining the amount of dry hopping? Do it the same way you would do the bud light hop test. Get a couple of bombers, put them in 12oz bottles, and drop various amounts of pellets in each bottle. Let sit in the fridge for a couple of days then try. Might give you an idea of how hard to hit it with the dry hopping.
 

Similar threads

S
Has anyone made an Abita Amber clone?
Replies
8
Views
1K
Sleepy_D
S
jturman35
Red IPA recipe
Replies
16
Views
2K
Indian_villager
I
Zippy123
Feedback on recipe to split mash for two different beers
Replies
2
Views
427
Zippy123
Zippy123
Hoochin'Fool
Imperial Stout recipe, any feedback?
Replies
21
Views
1K
Hoochin'Fool
Hoochin'Fool
zinn
How does my creamy pumpkin ale recipe look?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Leezer
Leezer

Latest posts

Back
Top