Question about cops and for those who live in Association communities

[dubprocess]

Progressivism at it's best. Wouldn't you love to find out who bitched and leave a big coil of yesterday's food in their driveway some evening? Beavis would....

I was thinking about posting a note on everyone's door saying if you cant come act like an adult and communicate..then mind your own $@#$$@#$@#$ business!

 

[woknblues]

I live in a HOA and have a few neighbor cops. Our HOA is mostly younger families. It seems like every time I brew, a cruiser drives by. Slowly. I usually wave hello.

 

[Pilgarlic]

But there are also laws that go against contracts with blatently illegal wording,or those of questionable legality. It's just human nature not to go after them & enforce the flip side of the laws or statutes they put into their contracts. I really think they need to take a hard look at these HOA contracts to ensure more precise wording so as to prevent them from using grey areas to harrass those they may not agree with or even like.

Generally speaking, courts will prevent Boards from acting "arbitrarily or capriciously". And where ambiguity exists in the language, their will be an attempt to discern the intent of the parties, and, at least in Florida, courts will err to the side of freedom of use of the property. Problem is every one of these declarations has a provision that allows the association to lien your property for legal fees if they win. Litigation is expensive. Want to take that chance?

 

[woknblues]

Also, I lived in Lake Forest for a while. I would get HOA letters all the time about neighbors complaining of me BBQing. In my own back yard. Seriously. They complained that there was "too much smoke". I had a webber and would grill steaks and chops and whatnot, 15-20 minutes max. How much ^%&*(& smoke on a Saturday afternoon for 20 minutes can you not endure, you psychos? They all would drive home in their mercedes SUV's and the garage door would close behind them. Couldn't wait to leave.

 

[unionrdr]

If I know I'm right yeah. I also am still a UAW member,& we do have legal services. To a point anyway. The fact that they haven't visibly or legally complained anymore shows I'm right in keeping within the laws regarding home brewing. I brew on the stove,so no problems there. I don't have wild parties where everyone's getting wasted on my beer,etc...

 

[Weezy]

On legal issues, always start local and go up. Definitely start with your home owners association bylaws. Post what it says and let us dissect it.

Here's Irvine Municipal Code on fires:

http://library.municode.com/HTML/10941/level2/TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI.html#TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI_S4-4-101FIBLRE

I'd look around more in the code for fires related to building code too.


This is interesting, regarding permits:
http://library.municode.com/HTML/10941/level2/TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI.html#TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI_S4-4-111PEINRE

You could get a permit from the fire marshall. Approach on the basis of trying to be safe, it's a legal act, and you wanted their input/approval. When you get the permit, ask for two copies. One ot keep and one to jam up your HOA manager's a$$.

 

[Desvio]

As for HOA I would say be careful they have a way of suing people and all sorts of shady things to get you to comply. The issue is you signed an agreement that you would follow all by laws when you moved in. That is where you may run into problems.

One of the tactics best know by HOA's is burying you in legal fees even if you are in the right it could end up costing you a huge amount to prove your point. Remember, the people running your HOA have huge superiority complexes, and DO NOT like to lose. And more than likely one of them is, or is married to a lawyer willing to support the HOA pro-bono.

 

[dubprocess]

On legal issues, always start local and go up. Definitely start with your home owners association bylaws. Post what it says and let us dissect it.

Here's Irvine Municipal Code on fires:

http://library.municode.com/HTML/10941/level2/TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI.html#TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI_S4-4-101FIBLRE

I'd look around more in the code for fires related to building code too.


This is interesting, regarding permits:
http://library.municode.com/HTML/10941/level2/TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI.html#TIT4PUSA_DIV4FI_S4-4-111PEINRE

You could get a permit from the fire marshall. Approach on the basis of trying to be safe, it's a legal act, and you wanted their input/approval. When you get the permit, ask for two copies. One ot keep and one to jam up your HOA manager's a$$.

Seriously I appreciate the feedback. So awesome you would do any kind of research for a total stranger..its greatly appreciated!

 

[Weezy]

No big deal man. I do a fair bit of interpreting and applying regulations for work.

From CA's Fire Code:

California's def of open burning :
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/ca/st/b300v10/st_ca_st_b300v10_3_sec002.htm

OPEN BURNING. The burning of materials wherein products of combustion are emitted directly into the ambient air without passing through a stack or chimney from an enclosed chamber. Open burning does not include road flares, smudgepots and similar devices associated with safety or occupational uses typically considered open flames, recreational fires or use of portable outdoor fireplaces. For the purpose of this definition, a chamber shall be regarded as enclosed when, during the time combustion occurs, only apertures, ducts, stacks, flues or chimneys necessary to provide combustion air and permit the escape of exhaust gas are open.


I've gone back and forth on whether this definition would include turkey fryer style cookers or not. It doesn't read like it intends to. It hinges on the interpretation of "materials" in the first sentence including LP gas or not. I don't see LP combustion generating "products of combustion" that need a chimney. However, an enforcement official could interpret it as such if it suits their interest.

this might be the most applicable part (note too that it's "open flame" not "open burning." this could certianly be cited to show that gas burners are not open burning):

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/ca/st/b300v10/st_ca_st_b300v10_3_sec008.htm

308.1.4 Open-flame cooking devices. Charcoal burners and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible construction.

Exceptions:
1. One- and two-family dwellings.
2. Where buildings, balconies and decks are protected by an automatic sprinkler system.
3. LP-gas cooking devices having LP-gas container with a water capacity not greater than 2-1/2 pounds [nominal 1 pound (0.454 kg) LP-gas capacity].


Difficult to interpret the exceptions, whether or not you have to meet all or each. I'd want to say each (i.e. if you're in a single family house, the rest don't matter)

 

[unionrdr]

Being married to a lawyer who supports the HOA probono could also be construed as conflict of interest with criminal intent. I can play f-f too. let the freekin games begin....

 

[Pilgarlic]

Important to note that if the HOA were to take action alleging a violation of covenants, permit or code compliance is irrelevant. If you're doing something the Association deems in violation and you flash a permit or cite code, the association will have every right to say "yeah, so?".

 

[Weezy]

Important to note that if the HOA were to take action, alleging a violation of covenants, permit or code compliance is irrelevant. If you're doing something the Association deems in violation and you flash a permit or cite code, the association will have every right to say "yeah, so?".

There's an important distinction between "deems" in violation and what actually "is" in violation. Like I and others said, you need to start with the HOA rules and see what exact words it uses. If it only says no "open burning" you can easily argue, based on the cited CA fire code, that turkey fryers do not classify as "open burning." Unless they redefined "open burning" in the covenant to include such things. If they did, you should then argue that it includes grills and start calling cops on anyone BBQing.

 

[Pilgarlic]

There's an important distinction between "deems" in violation and what actually "is" in violation. Like I and others said, you need to start with the HOA rules and see what exact words it uses. If it only says no "open burning" you can easily argue, based on the cited CA fire code, that turkey fryers do not classify as "open burning." Unless they redefined "open burning" in the covenant to include such things. If they did, you should then argue that it includes grills and start calling cops on anyone BBQing.

Granted, you should use all of those arguments. My point was and is that deed restrictions stand on their own terms as a contract, and they are not trumped or defined by terms of a municipal code. Written contracts mean what they say, or, when the meaning is ambiguous, their meaning is illuminated by what if anything can be gleaned of the intent of the parties (in this case, of the declarant).

 

[PosterGuy]

I once came very close to purchasing a house in an association.
A quick read of the bylaws (as thick as a small telephone directory) killed the idea.
You're lucky as they apparently do let you keep your garage door open for more than 15 minutes at a time.
Until you can move back to America you might try putting the rig on the back patio alongside the BBQ.
(I assume there is a back yard and they didn't also ban gas grills)

 

[Pilgarlic]

I once came very close to purchasing a house in an association.
A quick read of the bylaws (as thick as a small telephone directory) killed the idea.

This is exactly what should happen. It's the reason that state laws require that deed restrictions and HOA's be disclosed in real estate sales contracts and sometimes even in separate disclosures. It's the reason that deed restrictions are recorded in public records and listed in title insurance policies. With the laws in place, if you are averse to deed restrictions and HOA's you have every opportunity to avoid being subject to them.

 

[BamaProud]

I don't like HOA's either but if you agreed to live there under their rules/guidelines then you have to live up to them no matter what the law says you can do.

A gas burner is an open flame...A gas grill is enclosed. The side burner may indeed be a violation. I would just move to the back porch/yard.

 

[Nightshade]

reading your post has got my blood boiling. I wish I could help with finding the legalities and actual documents. What is wrong with everyone these days? If your neighbors want to know what you're up to, why don't they come over and ask you?! why do they need to call the police because they don't know what you're doing? has the US really become a place where you call someone with guns and handcuffs every time you are ignorant of a given situation? People with money demanding control of the rest of the population because they are so worried someone may think differently.
A message for your old retired folks. When the people that have to work everyday are trying to enjoy themselves, just remember that you are living off of the social security that we are paying, from which we will not see a dime when we reach your age and have to work until we are 72 to retire efficiently. so keep your nose out of our business! Americans, leave your fellow country-men alone unless they are victimizing innocents. Let others be free to choose for themselves!!
sorry for ranting on your post man, but I have been dealing with bitching neighbors for a while myself.

The neighbors won't simply walk over and ask what he's doing because simply put they are a bunch of pu$$ies who would rather hide behind the HOA.

 

[thood6]

The neighbors won't simply walk over and ask what he's doing because simply put they are a bunch of pu$$ies who would rather hide behind the HOA.

Cough cough

+10

 

[Zamial]

Them: So I watched the 1st 9 episodes of "Breaking Bad" and I am 100% sure my neighbor is running a meth a lab!

Me: I am NOT making methamphetamine, I am making barley soup. Is it against the law/rules to make soup?

Them: No one else makes food in the driveway, clearly you are up to no good!

Me: So no one in my area BBQ's??? or is this just some sort of soup prejudge? You are not a culinary racist are you?

Them: Umm...

Me: NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

Seriously...we are making food stuffs all the way up until we pitch yeast into a sugar solution. No one other than the authorities needs to know differently. I think if more homebrewers approached this from that angle that we would have less issues all the way around.

 

[pkrath84]

I live in a HOA in Yorba Linda. Quite a few of my neighbors homebrew and I havent heard any complaints. Then again, I brew in the backyard. My neighbor a few doors down brews in his garage all of the time though, and he usually has another neighbor come over to help.

I do however, do most everything else in the garage and occasionally get the nosy neighbor who walks their dog or child and slows down as they come across me while I'm processing my brew. I've had one neighbor come to a deadstop and stare. When I acknowledged him, he grabbed his kid and hurried off in a frenzy. Maybe he did think I was cooking meth. Haha! Nobody's ever complained though.

Sorry to hear. Hopefully everything works out for you.

 

[Weezy]

nother good point is that the police can't be called to enforce the HOA. That's a contract dispute not a public safety issue. And we know now, based on CA fire code, that it's not a public safety issue. (i.e. if a cop shows up, show him the CA regs. If he starts talking about the caller saying it was against HOA, remind him that the HOA is a contract dispute and none of the police's business)

 

[Pilgarlic]

nother good point is that the police can't be called to enforce the HOA. That's a contract dispute not a public safety issue. And we know now, based on CA fire code, that it's not a public safety issue. (i.e. if a cop shows up, show him the CA regs. If he starts talking about the caller saying it was against HOA, remind him that the HOA is a contract dispute and none of the police's business)

Exactly true.

 

[Ridire]

nother good point is that the police can't be called to enforce the HOA. That's a contract dispute not a public safety issue.

Bingo.

My tact when dealing with something like this with the police:

1. Always be friendly and polite to the cop...he didn't cause this problem and really doesn't want to be at your house busting your chops.

2. Always work in the phrase, "I know you're doing your job and had to respond to a complaint, and I respect that...".

3. Tell the officer that the bottom line is that this is a civil matter, not a police matter and apologize that he/she had to waste time to respond to it. I would use the exact phrase "civil matter".

 

[unionrdr]

The cops around here give some line that it's also in line with city code or something. They also say the will enforce HOA codes. I wanna get outta here & get out in the country. wife & kids hate the idea. They aren't the ones getting harrassed & fined for stupid things. HOA's are worthless to me.

 

[mannye]

Whew! I really like that I live in the "wild wild west" of Miami Beach. There are very few things I could do in my backyard or driveway that would get any kind of police or neighbor attention!

I guess it's the high concentration of New Yorkers in the area. Mind your own business we always say. It also helps that south beach puts the "iniquity" in "den of iniquity." I guess. Keeps the spotlight off the homeowners.

Also, ALWAYS be polite to the cops. Those are the same guys that are going to save your bacon when your uptight neighbor snaps and goes on that shooting spree. Can't hurt to offer them a six pack of homebrew to take at home.

I always make sure that whenever I see a local cop in front of my house, I throw em a bottle of water or soda or whatever and if my alarm goes off and I find them in front of the house, I always offer coffee or a beverage. I GAROANTEE (like that Cajun cook used to say) that the other dickheads in your neighborhood treat cops like servants there to do their bidding. My neighborhood is full of *****ebags just like yours. Entitled country club ******* types that never even wave hello at the guys who put themselves on the line to keep us safe.

Who do you think is going to get the benefit of the doubt? Me or Mr. and Mrs. ******* Lawyer next door? Cops remember who treats them like humans and who doesn't. Remember, you're part of your community and the less involved you are, the less right you have to complain and vice versa.

Now as far as living in a planned community with a HOA... eeew. I say start looking for a better place to live and sell that house to the next Stepford family.

 

[Weezy]

They also say the will enforce HOA codes.

That's not within their power. They'd have to cite you on some trumped up charge like Contempt of Cop. After they did so, I'd send a letter to your state reps and the state attorney generals office.

 

[unionrdr]

That's the way the cops around here have always been. One in particular that has always had it in for me & mine since I bought that older house around the block some 25 years ago. He was harassing people who came to look at it by pulling them (& me) over to get them to look elsewhere. He finally told me once he was trying to get it for pennies on the dollar so he could get his kids back. So I've been lied on & bad mouthed all over town for all that time & it started with that. Now the HOA is using them & being used by others jumping on the bandwagon for fear they'll wind up the same.
For the love of GOD,get me the F out of here!...

 

[jbaysurfer]

I think you don't know what "dictatorship" or "communism" is. But besides that, I bet you'll be just fine brewing out in the driveway, the message is pretty clear, don't have an open flame in your garage. It's not rocket science.

I also don't live in an association for just this reason. So I do feel you pain. But Irvine, (for those who don't know CA very well) happens to be a conservative stronghold in this state..makes the communism comment amusing to say the least.

 

[Mb2658]

I am sure that the cops are as annoyed by your neighbors as you are. They are just looking to clear the call and move on to the next one. Are some cops dicks? Of course, do they really care about you brewing beer on your property, most likely not. Do they have to respond to the call, deal with your obnoxious neighbors complaining and try to resolve the perceived issue in a reasonable manner? Yes. Keep in mind, most cops know who the obnoxious complainers are as they have to deal with them more than you do as they probably complain about your other neighbors too.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I despise H.O.A communities. There feeling of "self entitlment" pisses me off. If they spent as much time complaining, on other things. World would be a bit better. Aaahhhh.

I would not live in an HOA Stalag if you paid me. Yet, people PAY to live in one.

OP, you need some security cameras. With audio. Next time Officer Friendly shows up claiming he is gonna "shut you down", let him know he is being recorded, and ask for his badge number, his Sergeant's name, and his Captain's name. Then, let you know you are filing a formal complaint against him.

Then, file a formal complaint against him.

Inform the HOA you are about to lawyer up and go after them, if they do not reign in the BS.

Fight fire with fire. All these idiots understand is a figurative 2x4 to the head.

Good luck.

:rockin:

 

[mannye]

I would not live in an HOA Stalag if you paid me. Yet, people PAY to live in one.

OP, you need some security cameras. With audio. Next time Officer Friendly shows up claiming he is gonna "shut you down", let him know he is being recorded, and ask for his badge number, his Sergeant's name, and his Captain's name. Then, let you know you are filing a formal complaint against him.

Then, file a formal complaint against him.

Inform the HOA you are about to lawyer up and go after them, if they do not reign in the BS.

Fight fire with fire. All these idiots understand is a figurative 2x4 to the head.

Good luck.

:rockin:

I'm just sayin' put all your energy into harassing the HOA and leave the cop alone.

My mother lives in a condo here on the beach and at the first HINT of assholery I sic 'em with an angry lawyer letter. The lead pipe of litigation cures 99% of bullying by HOAs. If they keep at it after getting hit with a lead pipe, there's your 1% of "I should probably see wtf I'm doing wrong here."

 

[dubprocess]

I am sure that the cops are as annoyed by your neighbors as you are. They are just looking to clear the call and move on to the next one. Are some cops dicks? Of course, do they really care about you brewing beer on your property, most likely not. Do they have to respond to the call, deal with your obnoxious neighbors complaining and try to resolve the perceived issue in a reasonable manner? Yes. Keep in mind, most cops know who the obnoxious complainers are as they have to deal with them more than you do as they probably complain about your other neighbors too.

I agree.. We dont plan on being rude to the police anytime soon. We want to be calm and polite and be open to friendly discussion. Like someone else has already mentioned, if you piss them off they will find something to mess with you about. We respect the fact that they are "just doing their job".. We are brewing this late afternoon and I will let you guys know how it goes..

Just a side note..speaking of HOA.. We recently received a local garden plot with our Association after being on the waiting list for over a year! You guys would be simply blown away at all the regulations and rules involved in maintaining and building your plot... the garden plot is owned by the HOA but is run by a sub group who enforces their own policies...As the guy was walking us around and showing us our plot he kept pointing to other people's plots saying "oh yeah you see this, you dont want to do this, they are in complete violation"

He said this like 10-15 times and we were like what did we get ourselves into..ahhaha We plan on growing hops and I cant wait to start a thread with our experiences with this!!

 

[jhoneycutt]

Things like this are why I'll never live in California or a HOA community. MY PROPERTY IS MINE AND ILL DO AS I PLEASE. And I don't care what a neighbor thinks of it lol.

 

[its_manbearpig]

I only read the first four pages, but here is something I didn't see mentioned...

How about knocking on your neighbor's doors and being nice and explain that when you have that "thing" in your driveway that you're just brewing your own beer? Tell them if you're out in your driveway to feel free to come over and try some. Maybe throw a couple of hot dogs on the grill?

HOA's are a pain in the rear end, but you might be able to diffuse the situation with some nice-ness. What's it going to cost? Five bucks in hot dogs and a few dollars in beer?

That's what I'd try first anyway. If that didn't work, then I'd take a few other suggestions in this thread.

 

[dubprocess]

I only read the first four pages, but here is something I didn't see mentioned...

How about knocking on your neighbor's doors and being nice and explain that when you have that "thing" in your driveway that you're just brewing your own beer? Tell them if you're out in your driveway to feel free to come over and try some. Maybe throw a couple of hot dogs on the grill?

HOA's are a pain in the rear end, but you might be able to diffuse the situation with some nice-ness. What's it going to cost? Five bucks in hot dogs and a few dollars in beer?

That's what I'd try first anyway. If that didn't work, then I'd take a few other suggestions in this thread.

I know pretty much most of my neighbors..There are a few lurking in the shadows that I am unsure about..haha

 

[unionrdr]

Somebody stop this HOA merrygoround. I wanna get off. Interesting though that even my wife says We've had neighbors like that no matter where I moved us. The song Desperado comes to mind full force here. Oh,you're a hard one...but I know that you got your reasons. These things that are pleasin you...can hurt you ssomehow. Don't yer feet get cold in the wintertime? The sky won't snow & the sun won't shine. It's hard to tell the nighttime from the day. But through all your highs & lows...ain't it funny how the feeling goes...away...?...Call me a wanderer,cowboy....if you don't understand him,& he don't die young...he'll probably just ride away....time to ride off into the sunset & look for new places to just be.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Im super thankful that i have nobody like that in my HOA. I brew outside no issues, garage, etc whatever.

Then again my HOA seems to be one of the sane ones for the most part, only having certain exterior requirements for your front yard and back yard, most of them are cosmetic like get your house pressure washed once in awhile so it doesnt look like a hobo lives there, etc.

Keeps the property values and desirability for the whole area up when everyones house looks cookie cutter and tidy..so im all for it in this crappy housing economy

I'd be super pissed if i was the OP, but it does sound like a bunch of bored wealthy/old people looking to cause drama. Everyone knows people even outside of their HOA, who like to do nothing but cause drama.

 

[Rivenin]

Like you mentioned earlier... Move to oregon!

You can come over to my house and use my setup

 

[Weezy]

That's the way the cops around here have always been. One in particular that has always had it in for me & mine since I bought that older house around the block some 25 years ago. He was harassing people who came to look at it by pulling them (& me) over to get them to look elsewhere. He finally told me once he was trying to get it for pennies on the dollar so he could get his kids back. So I've been lied on & bad mouthed all over town for all that time & it started with that. Now the HOA is using them & being used by others jumping on the bandwagon for fear they'll wind up the same.
For the love of GOD,get me the F out of here!...

That's called Official Oppression, and its something that cops do get in trouble for.

If you're having problems with local cops, you should protect yourself. Put some signs out saying "By entering this property, you voluntarily submit to audio & video surveillance". Get similar stickers made for your car and put it in the window. Then get a surveillance system and carry an audio recording device. As soon as you get a whiff of Official Oppression, contact the state attorney generals office.

 

[cluckk]

I like Texas. With the exception of a few places people are friendly, yet mind their own business. "Mind not what someone else is doing on their own property," is the 11th Commandment. Occasionally someone moves in who hasn't learned it, but it isn't long before someone teaches them. Often it is the police who do the teaching.