Candida/ Pichia infection

[user 336313]

So I sent a sample of my brew to the lab. Came back positive for Candida/ Pichia. Not easy to find a lot of information about it. Like how does one pick it up? Is it a wild yeast like brett, that just blows throught the air? Does it come on grains? I know it spoils (sours) your beer. Does anyone have a good source of information on it?

 

[user 336313]

Alright, so I already got the answer from the lab when I called them. ICYI.
This yeast is too ´lazy´ to have any influence on beer that has already been fermented with the regular, added yeast.
It´s a yeast that can also be on your skin and cause some irritation.
It is also, however, an indication that some part of the brewing/ fermentation process wasn´t 100% clean/ sanitized. So it´s still something to take into consideration.
I dry-hopped this beer. Perhaps that´s how it got in. The bare skin of my forearms or whatever.
Adios!

 

[Deadalus]

I don't know anything about the species but consider perhaps your method of transfer from the boil kettle to the fermenter. I use a pump to transfer and the last transfer hose will go into either a carboy or bucket and the hose extends into the wort. I make sure I sanitize the hose completely and then make sure to lower it in completely without touching it. Gloves of course would help but I need to find a good clamp for it as I have had it blow out a couple times. Maybe you are inadvertently touching something like a hose, a cap, fermentation lock, etc.

Are you mixing your sanitizer correctly? Getting good coverage on the equipment for the right amount of time?

At the point you are dry hopping more than likely the beer will be almost done fermenting.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So I sent a sample of my brew to the lab. Came back positive for Candida/ Pichia. Not easy to find a lot of information about it..Is it a wild yeast

Fungi can look very different at different times in their life cycle, and so historically that has led to the same fungus being given different names because people saw it at different stages. It's a bit like putting caterpillars and butterflies in different species because they look so different.

It gets more confusing because some fungi are usually seen at the "caterpillar" stage and some at the "butterfly" stage so even once the connection is recognised and officially (since 2011) only one of the genus names should be used, both of them tend to persist in conversation. For instance, Brettanomyces and Dekkera are different stages of the same bugs - and Candida and Pichia are a similar pairing.

And historically Candida was the dumping ground genus for anything that looked like a yeast but they weren't quite sure what it was. There's been a recent paper that sequenced them to try and untangle the mess at a genetic level, but microbiologists will still use the term as a generic one for "looks like a yeast".

So in terms of your sample report, they're saying it could be one of 100's of species of wild yeast that are out there in the environment, it could have come from anywhere. You have them on your skin, it could have blown in from outside, it could have come from anywhere.

 

[mac_1103]

It gets more confusing because some fungi are usually seen at the "caterpillar" stage and some at the "butterfly" stage

So is the anamorph the caterpillar and the teleomorph the butterfly, or is it the other way around?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So is the anamorph the caterpillar and the teleomorph the butterfly, or is it the other way around?

The first one - sort of.

It's not a perfect analogy so apologies to any mycologists in the audience. Broadly you can think of anamorphs as mycelium that gathers resources (or "eats") like a caterpillar in order to produce a teleomorph which is the pretty "toadstool/mushroom" that gets to have sex, in the same way as a butterfly.

Except it's more complicated than that, and eg some fungi (like our favourite, Saccharomyces, particularly the brewing ones) don't really bother with sex and are quite happy to stay as "caterpillars" almost the whole time.

 

[mac_1103]

Broadly you can think of anamorphs as mycelium that gathers resources (or "eats") like a caterpillar in order to produce a teleomorph which is the pretty "toadstool/mushroom" that gets to have sex, in the same way as a butterfly.

Not bad. Although mushroom sex isn't really all that.

some fungi (like our favourite, Saccharomyces, particularly the brewing ones) don't really bother with sex and are quite happy to stay as "caterpillars" almost the whole time

That's because we feed them so well.

 

[user 336313]

Fungi can look very different at different times in their life cycle, and so historically that has led to the same fungus being given different names because people saw it at different stages. It's a bit like putting caterpillars and butterflies in different species because they look so different.

It gets more confusing because some fungi are usually seen at the "caterpillar" stage and some at the "butterfly" stage so even once the connection is recognised and officially (since 2011) only one of the genus names should be used, both of them tend to persist in conversation. For instance, Brettanomyces and Dekkera are different stages of the same bugs - and Candida and Pichia are a similar pairing.

And historically Candida was the dumping ground genus for anything that looked like a yeast but they weren't quite sure what it was. There's been a recent paper that sequenced them to try and untangle the mess at a genetic level, but microbiologists will still use the term as a generic one for "looks like a yeast".

So in terms of your sample report, they're saying it could be one of 100's of species of wild yeast that are out there in the environment, it could have come from anywhere. You have them on your skin, it could have blown in from outside, it could have come from anywhere.

That's interesting, and cool, but do you nonetheless agree with the lab person saying: 'This will not hurt your beer.'?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's because we feed them so well.

Even when they're stressed, you have to give them really quite specific conditions to have sex, Saccharomyces are the pandas of the fungus world.

Not bad. Although mushroom sex isn't really all that.

I bow to your greater experience!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's interesting, and cool, but do you nonetheless agree with the lab person saying: 'This will not hurt your beer.'?

Well my point was that Candida has hundreds of species, some of which are misclassified. So just saying "Candida" is a bit like saying "animal that eats grass", it's hard to comment further without more information.

But in general they're fairly benign environmental yeasts, so if your lab is OK with it then I'd go with that. Not something to trash a gyle for, but you need to improve your hygiene for next time.

 

[user 336313]

Well my point was that Candida has hundreds of species, some of which are misclassified. So just saying "Candida" is a bit like saying "animal that eats grass", it's hard to comment further without more information.

But in general they're fairly benign environmental yeasts, so if your lab is OK with it then I'd go with that. Not something to trash a gyle for, but you need to improve your hygiene for next time.

Roger that. Thank you.

 

[dtashmore547]

Candida albicans inhabits the human body, it can be in the mouth and digestive tract or anywhere on the body as a spore, it is generally a yeast and likes temperatures around body heat so in cold conditions has very little impact but when the temperatures rise it can devastate a batch of ale/wine, I had problems with oral candidiasis at one time and in the summer months could not brew a decent ale, it would be fine at the end of fermentation but a week later when I came to bottling it would smell of crab apples and have patches of light brown yeast floating on top. this yeast eats alcohol like its going out of fashion.

 

[mac_1103]

There are over 200 known species of Candida. Albicans is the one everyone has heard of because of its pathogenic importance, but its not the only one that's ubiquitous.

 

[user 336313]

Candida albicans inhabits the human body, it can be in the mouth and digestive tract or anywhere on the body as a spore, it is generally a yeast and likes temperatures around body heat so in cold conditions has very little impact but when the temperatures rise it can devastate a batch of ale/wine, I had problems with oral candidiasis at one time and in the summer months could not brew a decent ale, it would be fine at the end of fermentation but a week later when I came to bottling it would smell of crab apples and have patches of light brown yeast floating on top. this yeast eats alcohol like its going out of fashion.

So this goes directly against what the lab guy said. Frustrating!

 

[bracconiere]

i thought candida only fermented waxy stuff in cooches?

so unless whirfloc or irish moss was involved? or gelatin maybe? but i'm not sure if that's the same waxiness?