Help! contamination issues

[Red86yota]

I've had two batches in a row now that have become infected. Haven't had this problem before these two.

For the first batch, I blamed some possibly poorly harvested yeast (it was my first time trying to wash yeast, so could be understood if I screwed it up).

For the second batch, I was very diligent about sanitizing everything really well. I bought a new Better Bottle carboy to replace the bucket I had been using. New bung + blowoff tubing. Everything was sanitized with starsan, and then no-rinse sanitizer right before adding the wort. I pitched a starter made with DME and a fresh Wyeast 1056 pack. But now, 6 days later, the krausen has fallen, and left behind a funky, slimy mess. And a sample of the beer is quite funky/sour. Everything that touched the wort after boiling was new and sanitized.

Here are some pics of inside the fermenter, and some from my gravity sample that sits inside my fermentation chamber. Both are infected as far as I can tell.

Any ideas on what this could be? Or how to avoid it again? I'm starting to think my starter is to blame again, even though it was made using fresh yeast.

 

[Phipps]

Use a chlorinated sanitizer, StarSan only kills certain types of bacteria like E.coli and listeria but there are a number that it doesn't kill. I would imagine other no rinse sanitizers are similar.

 

[CBMbrewer]

Looks like krauzen that hasn't fallen yet to me. Don't dump it! let it ride out and see how it is. You could be just tasting all of the yeast that may still be in suspension.

 

[mikescooling]

It looks like my yeast. Why do you think it's infected?

 

[eastoak]

Use a chlorinated sanitizer, StarSan only kills certain types of bacteria like E.coli and listeria but there are a number that it doesn't kill. I would imagine other no rinse sanitizers are similar.

i would be interested to know what bacteria relevant to brewing, or any other bacteria for that matter, is immune to star san. there are very good reasons why chlorinated products are not popular in brewing and star san is.

 

[eastoak]

I've had two batches in a row now that have become infected. Haven't had this problem before these two.

For the first batch, I blamed some possibly poorly harvested yeast (it was my first time trying to wash yeast, so could be understood if I screwed it up).

For the second batch, I was very diligent about sanitizing everything really well. I bought a new Better Bottle carboy to replace the bucket I had been using. New bung + blowoff tubing. Everything was sanitized with starsan, and then no-rinse sanitizer right before adding the wort. I pitched a starter made with DME and a fresh Wyeast 1056 pack. But now, 6 days later, the krausen has fallen, and left behind a funky, slimy mess. And a sample of the beer is quite funky/sour. Everything that touched the wort after boiling was new and sanitized.

Here are some pics of inside the fermenter, and some from my gravity sample that sits inside my fermentation chamber. Both are infected as far as I can tell.

Any ideas on what this could be? Or how to avoid it again? I'm starting to think my starter is to blame again, even though it was made using fresh yeast.

sounds like you have to wash and sanitize all of your gear again. those pictures look normal to me but if it tastes sour to you then some wild thing must have gotten in there. sometimes those wild fermentations taste good but they can also taste bad.

 

[Red86yota]

Looks like krauzen that hasn't fallen yet to me. Don't dump it! let it ride out and see how it is. You could be just tasting all of the yeast that may still be in suspension.

I'm planning on letting it ride out, but it sure is funky now. This was supposed to be an IPA, but you can't even taste any hops though the funky taste.

The creamy / slimy goop on top of the beer doesn't look normal to me, but has appeared on these last two batches that were fermented in completely different equipment.

 

[bierhaus15]

There is nothing about those pictures that would indicate an infection. Completely normal for many strains of yeast, including wy1056. Moreover, the funky taste you are getting is most likely from suspended yeast and/or a still incomplete fermentation. Or ingredient/brewing process issues. Give it time.

 

[eastoak]

There is nothing about those pictures that would indicate an infection. Completely normal for many strains of yeast, including wy1056. Moreover, the funky taste you are getting is most likely from suspended yeast and/or a still incomplete fermentation. Or ingredient/brewing process issues. Give it time.

exactly. if this is one the first few beers you make then all of the krausens will look weird after a few more you will see that these are normal.

 

[Red86yota]

There is nothing about those pictures that would indicate an infection. Completely normal for many strains of yeast, including wy1056. Moreover, the funky taste you are getting is most likely from suspended yeast and/or a still incomplete fermentation. Or ingredient/brewing process issues. Give it time.

here's hoping you guys are right!

I've done quite a few batches, but these are some of my first AG. This one here in the pics is the first one that wasn't fermented in a bucket, so maybe these sights are more normal than I think.

 

[KGB09]

Looks good to me. What stage in the fermentation process did you taste?

 

[Red86yota]

Looks good to me. What stage in the fermentation process did you taste?

It was 6 days into ferm. I need to RDWHHB and see if this one turns out OK.

 

[dinnerstick]

errr, yeah that looks like some really healthy yeast. i saw the first one, thought it was the 'before' picture and was waiting to see the infection. but no, your beer appears to have a yeast infection.
that said, i don't know how you got it into your graduated cylinder, and why you have gorpy looking stuff inside your racking hose.

 

[stpug]

I've had two batches in a row now that have become infected. Haven't had this problem before these two.

For the first batch, I blamed some possibly poorly harvested yeast (it was my first time trying to wash yeast, so could be understood if I screwed it up).

For the second batch, I was very diligent about sanitizing everything really well. I bought a new Better Bottle carboy to replace the bucket I had been using. New bung + blowoff tubing. Everything was sanitized with starsan, and then no-rinse sanitizer right before adding the wort. I pitched a starter made with DME and a fresh Wyeast 1056 pack. But now, 6 days later, the krausen has fallen, and left behind a funky, slimy mess. And a sample of the beer is quite funky/sour. Everything that touched the wort after boiling was new and sanitized.

Here are some pics of inside the fermenter, and some from my gravity sample that sits inside my fermentation chamber. Both are infected as far as I can tell.

Any ideas on what this could be? Or how to avoid it again? I'm starting to think my starter is to blame again, even though it was made using fresh yeast.

I can't understand why you would sanitize with starsan and then use a no-rinse sanitizer (which one? one step?). It should have already been sanitized with the starsan - no need for a no-rinse sanitized (starsan IS a no-rinse sanitizer )

Your starter with DME: You boiled this for a couple minutes AT LEAST, right? Just checking.

Everything that touched the wort after boiling was sanitized - with which sanitizer (starsan or "no-rinse")?

Lastly, if you pulled a sample then what was your gravity at that time? I tend to think that if you tasted and smelled sour funkiness then it probably is infected but it's still worth riding out.

 

[Red86yota]

errr, yeah that looks like some really healthy yeast. i saw the first one, thought it was the 'before' picture and was waiting to see the infection. but no, your beer appears to have a yeast infection.
that said, i don't know how you got it into your graduated cylinder, and why you have gorpy looking stuff inside your racking hose.

My better bottle fermenter has a spigot at the bottom, I pulled a sample into my graduated cylinder right after pitching yeast and aerating the wort.

No pics of a racking hose, but you can see the blowoff tube in the pic of the fermenter (smallish diameter but it worked). I did get yeast / foam / gunk all the way down into the starsan-filled bottle at the end of my blowoff tube.

 

[Red86yota]

I can't understand why you would sanitize with starsan and then use a no-rinse sanitizer (which one? one step?). It should have already been sanitized with the starsan - no need for a no-rinse sanitized (starsan IS a no-rinse sanitizer )

Your starter with DME: You boiled this for a couple minutes AT LEAST, right? Just checking.

Everything that touched the wort after boiling was sanitized - with which sanitizer (starsan or "no-rinse")?

Lastly, if you pulled a sample then what was your gravity at that time? I tend to think that if you tasted and smelled sour funkiness then it probably is infected but it's still worth riding out.

Double sanitation because I was just 'making sure' everything was nice and sanitized

Yes, starter with DME was boiled for about 15 mins.

Everything that touches the wort after boiling is sanitized using a no-rinse (one-step I think).

SG was about 1.055, gravity now (1 wk later) is 1.010.

 

[eastoak]

Double sanitation because I was just 'making sure' everything was nice and sanitized

Yes, starter with DME was boiled for about 15 mins.

Everything that touches the wort after boiling is sanitized using a no-rinse (one-step I think).

SG was about 1.055, gravity now (1 wk later) is 1.010.

one step is probably not the best sanitizer out there but it comes with a lot of beginner kits, star san alone on clean gear is "making sure".

 

[stpug]

I would agree with above, starsan alone is "making sure" (i.e. good enough). I used one step for many years with no problems but it is not commercially sold as a sanitizer thus you should not use it as your last step. You would be better off using one step first, and then finishing with starsan (but really you only need starsan).

Good job on the starter wort boil time.

Everything that touches the wort after boiling should last be touched AND STILL BE WET by starsan, but unlikely that your one step caused any kind of infection.

Your OG and FG sound good to me. Does it still taste funky? I noticed that you said your funky, gunky sample was pulled immediately after pitching yeast; this would be a poor time to give any kind of fermentation characteristics since none has actually occurred at this point. So, how does your sample taste now that it's at 1.010 (which is a respectable FG, BTW)?

 

[Phipps]

Star San may not kill gram negative bacteria strains and certain wild strains of yeast and other fungus. Should kill most bacteria and probably effective for most applications but a if there is still an infection a chlorinated sanitizer will be more effective. Says on the star San bottle effective against e.coli and s.aureus type bacteria (both gram positive). Other bacteria that tolerate low acidity may also be resistant.

Did you take apart and clean the spigot? I hate spigots for that reason, they are at the bottom where the yeast settles and collects gunk and therefore have to be taken apart and cleaned every time which is a hassle. Would just rather use an auto siphon or wine thief to sample, transfer or bottle.

 

[Red86yota]

Your OG and FG sound good to me. Does it still taste funky? I noticed that you said your funky, gunky sample was pulled immediately after pitching yeast; this would be a poor time to give any kind of fermentation characteristics since none has actually occurred at this point. So, how does your sample taste now that it's at 1.010 (which is a respectable FG, BTW)?

Just pulled a quick sample from the bottom spigot - it still is a bit funky, but maybe it does seem to be mellowing out. I popped the bung off the top of the fermenter, and it does not smell great in there. The top of the beer looks the same as it did two days ago, still all those milky, yeasty bubbles. Shouldn't that drop out soon? In the past when I fermented with a bucket, the top of the beer was usually fairly clear after fermentation was done.

The funky gunky sample in the graduated cylinder was pulled right after the yeast was pitched and allowed to ferment on it's own. I just use this to check OG and FG.

 

[stpug]

That's good that it seems to be mellowing out in the funk department. You know, some yeasts give off odd aromas during fermentation which inevitably get trapped in the headspace of the fermenter. A better judge of aroma would be a pulled sample swirled around in a wine glass - just like a wine snob .

Another aspect I overlooked was the type of yeast used in those pictures. I currently have a wit that used brewferm blanche that hit final gravity days ago and the krausen is still floating on top and THICK yeasty, so yeast strain will definitely affect it's ability to drop. Some are just known to keep a krausen for a lengthy period of time. I'm actually giving mine some gentle rocking to encourage the krausen to break up and fall (I need this one ready and carbed in less than two weeks!!).

That's a nice process on your graduated cylinder acting as an alternative, parallel fermenter. I remember reading about this a while back so you can compare final gravities because the cylinder should be done much quicker (correct?), I've just never heard of anyone actually doing it. That explains the gunkiness.

Overall, I would agree with most that this brew will probably work itself out and be fine given a little time, but I look forward to hearing how it progresses.

 

[Red86yota]

Yeah, the aroma is still funky on a sample swirled around in a glass. It's hard to describe, but the aroma is definitely not the tasty simcoe/amarillo hops smell I was hoping for. I'm just going to give it more time and see how it goes. Maybe transfer it to a clean carboy in a few days and just forget about it for a while.

 

[mikescooling]

You know each time you mess with it you take the chance of getting an infection.