Blichmann Hop Rocket - Wort Loss

[dermotstratton]

I have used the Blichmann hop rocket on my last few brews and really like the results.

I'm also really trying to nail down my brewhouse efficiency (i.e. accounting for losses in mash tun dead space, hoses, trub left behind in boil kettle, etc.).

In doing this, I think I'm losing over a gallon of wort when using the hop rocket with 4 oz. of whole leaf hops. Does this sound about right to any one else using the hop rocket?

Another thing that I have noticed that the hop rocket is not really filtering out the hot break/cold break that well. It seems like it does a good job of of filtering out hop trub from the boil kettle, but there is a decent mount of whitish material that makes it through the pump that I am attributing to cold break material.

In case it impacts your advice, my set up is:

boil kettle -> pump -> hop rocket -> plate chiller -> fermenter

Any advice on expected wort losses on hop rocket and why break material is not being filtered via hop rocket is greatly appreciated!

 

[headfullahops]

I don't have a Hop Rocket YET, but I would have to imagine that the stuff you're seeing is cold break material that is coagulating in the chiller AFTER the Hop Rocket. I wouldn't sweat it. Break material that yeast don't metabolize in the early stages of fermentation will settle out when primary fermentation is complete. I am so close to pulling the trigger on getting me a HR tho.
Cheers!

 

[lpdjshaw]

4 oz is a lot to jam in a HopRocket, that being said I think your total loss could be affected by the length of your hoses as much as the volume in your HopRocket. A gallon sounds like quite a bit but I've only used mine once and didn't figure my total loss as I was worrying about too many other things with a whole new setup.

 

[dermotstratton]

Cold break after hop rocket makes sense. I'm just surprised how much. Just need to make more wort to make up for losses.

4 oz of leaf hops is max capacity for hop rocket. Just barely fits when loading up hop rocket, but room leftover after hops compact when wet.

I am definitely happy with hop rocket and would recommend to others.

 

[kwadric]

I measured the volume of water a hop rocket would hold with out ant hops. I believe it was a half gallon. Do that experiment and it should give you an estimate.

 

[luhrks]

There's a reason I brewed 12 or 17 gallon batches. You need to account for fluid loss into the fermenter and again post fermenter.

 

[kwadric]

I only brew 3 gallon batches and have been able to calibrate out / recover the wort from my hoses and hop rocket. I put three gallons in the kettle, ran it through the hop rocket and plate chiller, did my best to drain the system, and measured the volume into a bucket. I adjusted my brew software and have been pretty good at hitting my volume and gravity numbers.

That being said, I do waste a percentage of wort bc I brew small batches. But I brew for fun so I'd rather brew twice as often than twice the volume.

 

[dermotstratton]

Kwadric, agreed about not getting hung up on inefficiencies. This is home brewing and I'm not doing it to save money.

Just trying to figure out how much wort I need to end up with 10 gallons of finished beer. It seems my setup/amount of hops/etc keeps changing with each batch, so it is hard to predict. I think I'll just air on the side of excess wort production from now on and ferment excess wort in 1 gallon carboys if I have it.

 

[kwadric]

I was short volume on my first batch using my hop rocket even after the calibration. So I bumped I scaled the volume up in my brew software for the next batch by a little less than the volume that I was short. I think I did that twice, before i declared close enough.

I still get variation batch to batch due to recipe differences, process variation, and poor measurements... I'd say plus or minus a quart or so, but I think a lot of that is due to trying to measure small quantities.

Make small adjustments in your software set up each batch, but try not to over correct. You want to creep up on the right settings, not ping pong around them... I've wasted a lot if time that way.

 

[herman2011]

I lift the HR, hoses, pump, etc. up above the fermenter at the very end to drain everything. It's amazing how much wort you can recover from this.

 

[Matt3989]

I would imagine your biggest loss is in the plate chiller, I love mine, but I feel like I lose a ton of wort everytime.

 

[dermotstratton]

I am trying to measure losses with each batch and I'm trying to calculate them into my brewing software (Beersmith). One of my main problems is that I sometimes use my Hop Rocket and sometime I don't. I suppose the best thing to do is to set up two different systems within the software and be patient to zero in on actual numbers.

I tried to lift the hop rocket and plate chiller to salvage that last bit of wort, but the problem is my fermenter is relatively high off the floor and I don't have my pump, therminator and hop rocket all mounted onto one surface. I think that will make it much easier to do after I disconnect from BK. Is that what you do?

 

[kwadric]

My wort goes: kettle, pump, hop rocket, plate chiller, and then to either the kettle for whirl pool or better bottle. I only pump on the whirl pool. When I transfer wort to the better bottle, I use gravity.

I have my better bottle on the floor and my hop rocket and plate chiller on a table. The kettle is on a cart about six inches higher than the table. First, I drain the kettle until it runs empty. Second, I lift the hop rocket above the plate chiller and turn it dome side down. Once the wort flow stops, I pick up the plate chiller and tilt it so the outlet is down. I get most of the wort out.

I use my hop rocket on most batches. If I don't pack hops in the hop rocket, I put a hop bag full of pre boiled rice hulls in it. This keeps my process consistent and the hop rocket with rice hulls acts as a filter before the plate chiller.

 

[dermotstratton]

That easygoing to bey next question. Do rice hulls impart taste? Is that why you per boil? I'm guessing hops soak up more beer than rice hulls but not sure how much difference there will be.

 

[kwadric]

I went back and checked my notes. I added the HR and plate chiller when I switched from 6 gallon batches to 3 gallon batches. I ended up setting my brewing software to 3.125 gallons to make up for the loss. My typical volume to the fermenter is between 2.75 to 3 gallons.

From what I've read, the rice hulls should not impart taste, but I preboil them to be sure. Plus it sanitizes them. I stick the bag of rice hulls in a measuring cup and microwave them, dump the cloudy water out, rinse the hulls, and microwave with fresh water again. It sounds like a pain, but I do it during the down time during the mash.

I haven't noticed any flavors in my beer that I would attribute the to the rice hulls. I brewed a German Pilsner with this technique, and while the beer had a hint of fruity flavor that I didn't love, I didn't taste any unexpected grainy flavor.

 

[dermotstratton]

Cool thanks for info.

Sorry about auto-correct text in last post.

I'm surprised you can get so little loss. I am going to try and build a stand so that my hop rocket and therminator are higher then fermenter and that should minimize losses in therminator.

 

[kwadric]

The dip tube in my kettle is a 1/2 elbow and it pulls right to the bottom of the kettle. And I drain all my lines into the fermenter. I get a ton of break with the wort... but my numbers are usually predictable, until today.

 

[Brookswade]

I just bottled my first batch of Pale Ale using the Blichmann Hop Rocket. I used 3 oz. of Cascade in the Hop Rocket in place of 1 oz. at flame out and 1 oz. dry hop. The flavor is better. But if you don't collect the wort in the hop rocket, pump, plate chiller and associated hoses, the wort loss is 1 gallon. I need to develop a way to do this without making a mess or just sacrifice 1 gallon on each 5 gallon batch. The Hop Rocket is a good product, but you need to know about the wort loss before you buy. Cheers!

 

[kwadric]

I now use my hop rocket upside down in a coffee can with a hole cut in the side for the hose. I come out the kettle to my pump, out the pump to the base of the hop rocket (now at the top), out the hop rocket dome (now at the bottom), and then through the plate chiller. I set the hop rocket slightly higher than the plate chiller and it siphons most of the wort out of the system.

I accomplished the same thing in the past by lifting and inverting the hop rocket. But the set up I described above works just as well with having to move the hop rocket.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I lift the HR, hoses, pump, etc. up above the fermenter at the very end to drain everything. It's amazing how much wort you can recover from this.

I do the same, and I tilt it upside down. Be careful because that SOB is HOT!!

MC

 

[lpdjshaw]

What he just said!

 

[wooby111]

Just got done with this last night and still have my lost gallon sitting "trapped" in the system. Here's my crazy idea for next time, and I'm gonna test it tonight on what's in there...

Since you know the volume of the lost wort, why not:

1) Sanitize an empty water gallon jug or similar
2) Have a separate kettle/pot which has a bottom spigot (I have an old Blichmann sitting next to the Braumeister) filled with enough water to feed the spigot and fill the entire system.
3) once the kettle emptying is complete, pause the pump, swap the tube from the brew kettle to the water pot and pump an extra gallon of wort *(followed by water so the pump doesn't run dry) through the system and into the sanitized empty container; stop when known volume is achieved and dump the wort into the fermenter.

On top of minimizing losses, you get a leg up on cleaning, since now you have water in the system and not syrupy, hoppy wort. Just a thought.

Opinions?

 

[Drumminguy81]

Had the same issue didn't like leaving the wort behind. Got worse when I upgraded to a 3 gallon stout tanks hop back. I have recently been testing using co2 to push the remaining wort to my fermenter with great results. I built a fitting that I can hook up to the hop back that my co2 attaches to and push it all out with the pressure. Works great. I have not looked into weather or not co2 could have negative results to the flavor but so far the last 3 batches turned out great with zero leftover wort in the hop back. Im not sure how well this would work with the hop rocket though, the gas might just go past the liquid and out the top.. my new hop back feeds at the top and out the bottom. So you might have to flip the hop rocket to get it to work..

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Had the same issue didn't like leaving the wort behind. Got worse when I upgraded to a 3 gallon stout tanks hop back. I have recently been testing using co2 to push the remaining wort to my fermenter with great results. I built a fitting that I can hook up to the hop back that my co2 attaches to and push it all out with the pressure. Works great. I have not looked into weather or not co2 could have negative results to the flavor but so far the last 3 batches turned out great with zero leftover wort in the hop back. Im not sure how well this would work with the hop rocket though, the gas might just go past the liquid and out the top.. my new hop back feeds at the top and out the bottom. So you might have to flip the hop rocket to get it to work..

CO2 won't damage the beer, mostly inert and won't dissolve well in hot wort.

MC

 

[brick_haus]

+1 on co2 purge. Been doing that since I began brewing.