Best boil kettle drain location for whirlpooling ? Bottom drain ? Hop filter ?

[brewman !]

I'm building a boil kettle. I'd like to put a bottom drain on it to facilitate clean in place. However, I'm worried about how it will work when I whirlpool. Does anyone whirlpool with a bottom drain on the boil kettle ?

I think I'd like to put the drain on the very edge of the kettle bottom. But then how do you put a hop filter on it ?

Edit: I plan to use either whole hops or pellet hops. I will be using a plate chiller. I'll use a hop bag if I need to, but I would rather not.

 

[BrunDog]

I have one, it is near the edge. I have played with dams, etc. I have a U shaped damn which is open in the opposite direction of the whirlpool. Because I use pellet hops, I don't use any filter. The whirlpool does the job. I have tried a bazooka screen vertically but it clogs very easily, causing cavitation. So I suggest no hop filter.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have one, it is near the edge. I have played with dams, etc. I have a U shaped damn which is open in the opposite direction of the whirlpool. Because I use pellet hops, I don't use any filter. The whirlpool does the job. I have tried a bazooka screen vertically but it clogs very easily, causing cavitation. So I suggest no hop filter.

Just curious, any clogging issues, even with IPA sized hop loads?

What kind of chiller do you use? CFC?

 

[BrewKaiser]

I would not locate the wort drain more than 1-1/2" center line from the edge of the keggle/Kettle wall. As Brundog reports a good whirlpool with a strategically placed dam should do the trick.

I am almost done with my build and have yet to test, but I welded a 3/4" SST elbow through the bottom of the keg 1-1/2" on center from edge of the wall with the bottom coming out the hand grip on the bottom. Tack welded the elbow to the bottom of the hand grip for added support.

I also fabricated a "pick-up ring" with holes at about a 20* angle to the bottom of the keg on the outside edge of the ring. The pick up holes line up with the bottom of the keg.

I'll let you know if it works once I'm up and running. Here are a few pics for reference.

 

[jzimpleman]

I'm building a keggle setup and have wondered the same thing.

After reading a lot of posts here, I'm going with a Jaybird level 3 false bottom and 5/8 inch pickup tube along with a whirlpool. This will allow me to get most of the wort out, like a bottom drain, but still have the direct fire capabilities. Jaybird says that he uses this setup regularly and stays clean enough to run straight to a plate chiller from the pickup tube with no additional filter.

I'm still a few weeks away from trying myself!

 

[BrunDog]

I would not locate the wort drain more than 1-1/2" center line from the edge of the keggle/Kettle wall. As Brundog reports a good whirlpool with a strategically placed dam should do the trick.



I am almost done with my build and have yet to test, but I welded a 3/4" SST elbow through the bottom of the keg 1-1/2" on center from edge of the wall with the bottom coming out the hand grip on the bottom. Tack welded the elbow to the bottom of the hand grip for added support.



I also fabricated a "pick-up ring" with holes at about a 20* angle to the bottom of the keg on the outside edge of the ring. The pick up holes line up with the bottom of the keg.



I'll let you know if it works once I'm up and running. Here are a few pics for reference.

Friggin' brilliant!!

 

[BrunDog]

Just curious, any clogging issues, even with IPA sized hop loads?



What kind of chiller do you use? CFC?

Nah. Yah.

 

[brewman !]

I would not locate the wort drain more than 1-1/2" center line from the edge of the keggle/Kettle wall. As Brundog reports a good whirlpool with a strategically placed dam should do the trick.

I am almost done with my build and have yet to test, but I welded a 3/4" SST elbow through the bottom of the keg 1-1/2" on center from edge of the wall with the bottom coming out the hand grip on the bottom. Tack welded the elbow to the bottom of the hand grip for added support.

I also fabricated a "pick-up ring" with holes at about a 20* angle to the bottom of the keg on the outside edge of the ring. The pick up holes line up with the bottom of the keg.

I'll let you know if it works once I'm up and running. Here are a few pics for reference.

I like your pickup ring. But the elbow defeats the purpose of putting the bottom drain fitting in, to drain enough to clean in place.

 

[brewman !]

I have one, it is near the edge. I have played with dams, etc. I have a U shaped damn which is open in the opposite direction of the whirlpool. Because I use pellet hops, I don't use any filter. The whirlpool does the job. I have tried a bazooka screen vertically but it clogs very easily, causing cavitation. So I suggest no hop filter.

Pics of the dam ?

I'm worried about the base of the whirlpool cone going out to the edge of the kettle and getting a big load of hop debris in the intake when I start the pump. I could recirculate the first start back into the kettle, but then that material would be floating in the wort, so it would go through the pump eventually anyway.

Complicating things, mine is an all in one system and I'm hoping for the inner basket to nearly sit on the bottom of the boil kettle.

Maybe I'm over thinking this and I should just go with a side inlet ?

 

[BrunDog]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1486523885.776456.jpg

Sorry not a great pic. Half of a 1/2" NPT close nipple screwed in to pickup above the bottom a touch.

I don't sweat hops going through the inlet/pump/chillers. That's the point of whirlpooling. After a while the debris settles into the cone and the amount circulated drops dramatically.

 

[BrewKaiser]

I like your pickup ring. But the elbow defeats the purpose of putting the bottom drain fitting in, to drain enough to clean in place.

Thanks. I guess you could use the bottom drain to collect clean wort and then later drain waste from bottom of kettle after removing the hose or re-routing. My set up is a permanently mounted, bottom draining keggle. The bottom of the keggle (original Sanke neck) is connected to a 2" butterfly valve to dump waste. The pick up ring is only for wort.

The benefit of a keggle is using the concave bottom to help maintain trub cone to separate from wort . Standard kettles are flat bottomed, so like BrunDog's set up you would want your bottom drain to not sit completely flush with the bottom of the kettle as some trub and hop debris will seep into your bottom port near the end of the drain.

All commercial whirlpool tanks have a conical bottom with the waste port at the center and wort port somewhere higher up the cone - as BrunDog referenced earlier.

I would experiment by leaving some tube protruding from bottom of the kettle until you find the right height to collect wort and prevent debris. It's always easier to cut away than to add more height.

Good luck

 

[brewman !]

I could weld a coupler completely on the underside of the kettle. Then I could screw in nipples of various lengths inside the kettle and attach a dam to them. When I want to clean the kettle, I could remove the dam and the nipple, leaving a perfectly flat drain.

Thoughts ?

 

[BrunDog]

I could weld a coupler completely on the underside of the kettle. Then I could screw in nipples of various lengths inside the kettle and attach a dam to them. When I want to clean the kettle, I could remove the dam and the nipple, leaving a perfectly flat drain.



Thoughts ?

That's what I did. I soldered a 1/2" NPT coupling to the bottom, so I have threads inside and below the kettle for connection. The nipple you see in the pic above is just slightly screwed it.

That said, flat bottom kettle does not drain perfectly during CIP. I wish someone would make a BK with a legit conical bottom! Obviously a keggle accomplishes that as BK mentioned.

BrewKaiser: do you have a thread or pics I can see of your rig?

 

[brewman !]

That said, flat bottom kettle does not drain perfectly during CIP.

It should drain enough to wipe out the remainder with a rag.

I wish someone would make a BK with a legit conical bottom! Obviously a keggle accomplishes that as BK mentioned.

But the outlet would have to be put in the center of the keggle, where it would not work with a whirpool. You'd then need 2 outlets, one in the center for CIP draining and another on the periphery for draining during the whirlpool.

I'm trying to accomplish both with one outlet. I like the idea of putting the coupler beneath and then being able to thread various accessories into it.

Next question... where to exactly place the drain/coupler. As close to the kettle wall as possible ? Far enough in to be able to swing an elbow and clear the wall ?

 

[BrunDog]

It should drain enough to wipe out the remainder with a rag.



But the outlet would have to be put in the center of the keggle, where it would not work with a whirpool. You'd then need 2 outlets, one in the center for CIP draining and another on the periphery for draining during the whirlpool.

I'm trying to accomplish both with one outlet. I like the idea of putting the coupler beneath and then being able to thread various accessories into it.

Next question... where to exactly place the drain/coupler. As close to the kettle wall as possible ? Far enough in to be able to swing an elbow and clear the wall ?

It is close enough to wipe out with a rag. But the tiny particles of dirt don't necessarily make it down the drain. The just kind of sit on the bottom. So you have to spray multiple times and wipe out. Not a biggy - I just don't like manual work.

I put mu coupling almost as far as it would go. I soldered a thick-walled coupler to the bottom, so it had to be on a flat section. Get too close to the edge and you start to pick up some of the radius, which of course won't work.

-BD

 

[BrewKaiser]

BrewKaiser: do you have a thread or pics I can see of your rig?

Not yet. Want to fire it up and test it all out before posting a build thread. I have designed, fabricated, and implemented a few unique items (wort ring being one of them). I want to make sure it all works as intended before giving anyone any ideas.

I did post a couple pics on another thread I started for the insulation coating I applied.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597649

Pics are from a few weeks ago. This weekend I should be finished with the mechanical build portion. Then I have to wrap my head around setting up the program for BCS 462. I'll likely be asking for help on ECC forum.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Brewman, what size kettle are you intending to use and where do you plan to drain the waste water from CIP?

Threaded coupling on the bottom should work fine. You will have to be sure to get a brush in there from time-to-time to clean out an gunk that might accumulate.

I'm guessing as single vessel BIAB set up it's a sizable kettle and likely near to the ground. Might be a long reach for you to swap out the fittings on the inside bottom of the kettle.

 

[BrunDog]

It should drain enough to wipe out the remainder with a rag.



But the outlet would have to be put in the center of the keggle, where it would not work with a whirpool. You'd then need 2 outlets, one in the center for CIP draining and another on the periphery for draining during the whirlpool.

I'm trying to accomplish both with one outlet. I like the idea of putting the coupler beneath and then being able to thread various accessories into it.

Next question... where to exactly place the drain/coupler. As close to the kettle wall as possible ? Far enough in to be able to swing an elbow and clear the wall ?

It is close enough to wipe out with a rag. But the tiny particles of dirt don't necessarily make it down the drain. The just kind of sit on the bottom. So you have to spray multiple times and wipe out. Not a biggy - I just don't like manual work.

I put mu coupling almost as far as it would go. I soldered a thick-walled coupler to the bottom, so it had to be on a flat section. Get too close to the edge and you start to pick up some of the radius, which of course won't work.

-BD

 

[BrunDog]

Not yet. Want to fire it up and test it all out before posting a build thread. I have designed, fabricated, and implemented a few unique items (wort ring being one of them). I want to make sure it all works as intended before giving anyone any ideas.

I did post a couple pics on another thread I started for the insulation coating I applied.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597649

Pics are from a few weeks ago. This weekend I should be finished with the mechanical build portion. Then I have to wrap my head around setting up the program for BCS 462. I'll likely be asking for help on ECC forum.

RE: BCS... feel free to PM me. I know it well.

 

[brewman !]

Brewman, what size kettle are you intending to use and where do you plan to drain the waste water from CIP?

I am planning to do this on an 11 gallon and 20+ gallon boil kettles. I'll put a tray below the kettles when I drain them. The same try catches the liquid drained from the pump and the other piping.

Threaded coupling on the bottom should work fine. You will have to be sure to get a brush in there from time-to-time to clean out an gunk that might accumulate.

Yes. But it is a boil kettle. It will self sterilize when circulating and during the boil itself.

I'm guessing as single vessel BIAB set up it's a sizable kettle and likely near to the ground. Might be a long reach for you to swap out the fittings on the inside bottom of the kettle.

Not BIAB, but rather a mash tun inside the kettle, like a Grainfather, on steroids.

I'm wondering if I am gaining anything by doing the bottom drain versus putting a drain very low on the wall. I can tilt the kettle a bit and get pretty much the effect. It is definitely harder to design the stand around the bottom drain kettle, for reasons I haven't shared yet.