BeerSmith 3 Basic or Gold?

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The basic version is a single download. You will get limited cloud storage and access to all minor updates. Gold gives you greater cloud storage of recipes and access to all updates for as long as you are subscribed.

Note the items which are of the most interest to you to guide you on the choice you want to make.

I have the basic download which works best and cheapest for me. I use only one computer and it is used for all brewing purposes. I don't use much cloud storage for recipe storage since I don't require it. When I travel with my computer, I can work on recipes without being connected to the internet, which for some of the places I go to is a major plus.
 
Their website is a bit of a cluttered eye chart, hard to read through. Is BeerSmith 2 desktop version a one time payment or are there monthly subscription fees?

Also, is there a BeerSmith 3 option that doesn't require monthly subscriptions?
 
Their website is a bit of a cluttered eye chart, hard to read through. Is BeerSmith 2 desktop version a one time payment or are there monthly subscription fees?

Also, is there a BeerSmith 3 option that doesn't require monthly subscriptions?

I use beersmith 3. I only paid once. I think the monthy is only if you want a bunch of cloud storage / synching between devices. I don't care about that.
 
I had the basic with BS2 but when BS3 came out I upgraded to gold. I found it limiting to have only 15 recipes to put into the cloud. Now I have more than enough. Plus I found more than enough value in the program in general to make the additional investment. You either find value in the product and are willing to make the investment or you are not.
 
BeerSmith 3 is available as a single download with limited cloud storage (15 recipes). You will get minor downloads (3.x versions) but will need to pay again for the next big update (4.x versions).

You can also obtain it as a subscription with different levels of cloud recipe storage. It is the same program as the single download, but all upgrades (3.x and 4.x) are part of the package. Previously, v2 was a single cost plus optional added cloud storage was available as a subscription.

Brad's track record is consistent in that he continues to update and add features to the current version up until he adds a major component or needs to rewrite part of the basic code. The update from v2.x to v3.x included a major change in the way profiles are handled to allow for better handling of mead, cider, and wine recipes, inclusion of water profiling directly within a recipe, an update of the mash pH prediction model, and modifications of the modeling for whirlpool/steep hops. There were some additional minor changes that would have normally been pushed out in a minor update as well.

Given the time lapse between v2 and v3 and the changes and additions included in the latest revision, the value proposition is on purchasing the one-time download. If working across multiple computers and cloud storage of recipes is important to you, then the subscription model better fits your mode of usage.
 
Personally, I am 100% on the mobile version. It does most of what the desktop does (some missing water stuff is the only thing I am aware of...and the ability to print out recipes too). For many years I used a simple free app (on my iPod...until that died...now I have an Android phone). For me, I got addicted to the ability to create/tweak recipes while away from my computer...at work, at the brew store, etc...and I wanted to be able to pull up my recipes when sampling with friends or at a club meeting. The Brew Day Timer feature is nice as well. If one day Brad implements an integrated recipe storage solution between mobile and desktop, I would consider adding in desktop to the mix.

I have used many different brewing software solutions over the years. I learned that relying on one piece of software to support long term storage of recipes is a mistake. I use BS to formulate/calculate recipes, but then I also have a Word template that I fill out for each recipe, and keep in a folder (with an electronic version on my computer backed up to cloud storage).
 
May I ask you how you backup your recipes then with the mobile version only @CascadesBrewer ?

For the most part I count on BeerSmith to formulate my recipes, and I count on my Word documents to backup my recipes (print out + electronic version + OneDrive copy). I did create a free BeerSmith Cloud account that allows for 10 or 15 recipes to be uploaded there, though I have only really played around with that.

The reason I went with BeerSmith over some other software was because I was switching to BIAB and the BeerSmith profile model works well for moving between 5 gal BIAB, 5 gal Fly Sparge, 2.5 gal BIAB, 2.0 gal BIAB, etc.

I guess I have been brewing for over 25 years. The best records I have are from my first 20 or so batches when I did not use software and I kept all my notes on paper. I then used software on Windows 3.x...Windows 95...and for about 5 years I used an iOS app (Brew Pal). I have really spotty records of the batches I brewed in that time. I made a resolution this year to fix that.

For the most part I use BeerSmith Mobile and Bru'n Water to calculate my recipes. I enter the data into my Word template, print that out on brew day, and record stats on the sheet. After the beer is done, I make sure I have updated all the info in the Word doc (including tasting notes) then print out a final version to go into my notebook.
 
Hijacking my own post... I just give a try on Beersmith importing a Brewgr extract recipe. My IBU is completely of from 60 to 72 ... with initial hop @60min from AA 7.7% Brewgr says 26.7 and Beersmith 32.7 for a 1 gallon batch... I'm suspecting wrong parameters in Beersmith....
 
Brewgr says 26.7 and Beersmith 32.7
Be aware, there are 3 main methods for calculating IBU, and the results (estimates) differ among them. Make sure you select the correct one, the one that matches the method used in the original recipe when converting.

I've never been successful automatically converting external recipes in Beersmith without having to tweak them more or less afterward. But if you have a ton of them to convert it makes sense to tweak the conversion parameters in Beersmith to get a closer match from the start.

I find it just as easy to key in the recipe from scratch in Beersmith from any given recipe's ingredients. Now the equipment profile you use will affect the outcome.
 
Be aware, there are 3 main methods for calculating IBU, and the results (estimates) differ among them. Make sure you select the correct one, the one that matches the method used in the original recipe when converting.

I've never been successful automatically converting external recipes in Beersmith without having to tweak them more or less afterward. But if you have a ton of them to convert it makes sense to tweak the conversion parameters in Beersmith to get a closer match from the start.

I find it just as easy to key in the recipe from scratch in Beersmith from any given recipe's ingredients. Now the equipment profile you use will affect the outcome.
Thanks!

I do have the feeling that the equipment profile is messing up things... Then I'm realizing as you write it that Brewgr is using Tinseth and Beersmith... I don't know ;) EDIT : Tinseth according to preferences...
 
Thanks!

I do have the feeling that the equipment profile is messing up things... Then I'm realizing as you write it that Brewgr is using Tinseth and Beersmith... I don't know ;) EDIT : Tinseth according to preferences...

Is the %AA of the hop that's actually being used set to the same (7.7%) in both programs? Are there wort gravity differences between the 2 programs? Gravity affects %AA isomerization.
 
The calculations for IBU, given the same formula, are relatively straight forward. The areas you want to focus on in the equipment profile which dictates the sugar efficiency of your system and the process losses, and the whirlpool/steeping options. Because BeerSmith relies on Brew House Efficiency (BHE) to determine the amount of sugars from the malts that make it to the fermenter, it drives the calculation backwards and there are no checks on what is a realistic value for mash/lauter efficiency. Likewise, process losses dictate the loss of IBU throughout the process and into the fermenter. Every loss in volume past the boil stage equates to a drop in the IBU calculation in the fermenter. I am unfamiliar with how Brewgr works, but if these values are not the same, the calculation will end up differently. After that, the options to extend the bittering calculation of boil hops into the whirlpool/steep section will often throw off what seems to be a straight forward calculation. BeerSmith allows the user to set this up and it is held constant regardless if there is a whirlpool hop addition or not.

Beyond that, the calculation of IBU is pretty much a shot gun spread around the target. You get a calculated number and hope your system will get you somewhere close to it. Assuming that you have your equipment profile set up properly, adjust your target to where your taste buds indicate the bitterness should be as compared to the bitterness of known commercial beers.
 
The calculations for IBU, given the same formula, are relatively straight forward. The areas you want to focus on in the equipment profile which dictates the sugar efficiency of your system and the process losses, and the whirlpool/steeping options. Because BeerSmith relies on Brew House Efficiency (BHE) to determine the amount of sugars from the malts that make it to the fermenter, it drives the calculation backwards and there are no checks on what is a realistic value for mash/lauter efficiency. Likewise, process losses dictate the loss of IBU throughout the process and into the fermenter. Every loss in volume past the boil stage equates to a drop in the IBU calculation in the fermenter. I am unfamiliar with how Brewgr works, but if these values are not the same, the calculation will end up differently. After that, the options to extend the bittering calculation of boil hops into the whirlpool/steep section will often throw off what seems to be a straight forward calculation. BeerSmith allows the user to set this up and it is held constant regardless if there is a whirlpool hop addition or not.

Beyond that, the calculation of IBU is pretty much a shot gun spread around the target. You get a calculated number and hope your system will get you somewhere close to it. Assuming that you have your equipment profile set up properly, adjust your target to where your taste buds indicate the bitterness should be as compared to the bitterness of known commercial beers.
Thanks! It must be something like that. Brewgr do not bring lot of tweaking capabilities but it was fine so far for me brewing extract.

I have to check more in detail cause in BeerSmith I had to create a 1gal equipment... Maybe I messed it up...
 
Likewise, process losses dictate the loss of IBU throughout the process and into the fermenter. Every loss in volume past the boil stage equates to a drop in the IBU calculation in the fermenter.
I don't see this being correct unless water is added after the boil to make up for those losses. If anything, IBU should go up during the boil due to evaporating water. Then as gravity increases, AA isomerization reactions decrease, but at a different rate.

[Added] If wort is left behind in the kettle after transferring to the fermenter, the IBUs in that wort remain the same, there is just less wort.
 
Thanks! It must be something like that. Brewgr do not bring lot of tweaking capabilities but it was fine so far for me brewing extract.

I have to check more in detail cause in BeerSmith I had to create a 1gal equipment... Maybe I messed it up...
Watch out with relatively small brew volumes. Many losses don't scale proportionally, such as boil off tends to be much higher. You won't know what they really are until you brew a batch and keep track of the various parameters.

When you brew smaller all grain batches, put your mash pot in a pre-warmed but turned off oven to keep temps better. A small pot with 2 gallons of mash at ambient room temps cools down much faster than a 10 gallon kettle with 8 gallons of mash. Even when wrapped in a sleeping bag.
 
I don't see this being correct unless water is added after the boil to make up for those losses. If anything, IBU should go up during the boil due to evaporating water. Then as gravity increases, AA isomerization reactions decrease, but at a different rate.

[Added] If wort is left behind in the kettle after transferring to the fermenter, the IBUs in that wort remain the same, there is just less wort.

Unlike the BeerSmith calculation for gravity, the program calculates the IBU based upon the post boil volume. If you end up with 6 gallons of wort post boil and transfer 5.5 gallons to the fermenter, the calculation gives you a lesser value than if you have 5.5 gallons post boil and transfer it all to the fermenter.
 
Unlike the BeerSmith calculation for gravity, the program calculates the IBU based upon the post boil volume. If you end up with 6 gallons of wort post boil and transfer 5.5 gallons to the fermenter, the calculation gives you a lesser value than if you have 5.5 gallons post boil and transfer it all to the fermenter.
Ok so that may explain the difference. I have to do the math.
 
Unlike the BeerSmith calculation for gravity, the program calculates the IBU based upon the post boil volume. If you end up with 6 gallons of wort post boil and transfer 5.5 gallons to the fermenter, the calculation gives you a lesser value than if you have 5.5 gallons post boil and transfer it all to the fermenter.
Whaaa!
Thank you for the explanation! That may well cause the IBU discrepancy there.
 
Sounds like a reasonable answer. Still need to understand how to tweak all the equipment side of it cause it looks like it will drastically affect results...

The goal is to tweak the profiles to have the software reflect your actual results. I can get the software to produce any result that I want, but the only one that I really care about is the one that matches what I actually brew.

Take the time to carefully go through your system and record the volumes, gravity readings and losses. Change the equipment profile and the software settings to reflect these values and BeerSmith will become a very reliable tool for you. Shortcut and guess at the values and you will be chasing it for a while.
 
Take the time to carefully go through your system and record the volumes, gravity readings and losses. Change the equipment profile and the software settings to reflect these values and BeerSmith will become a very reliable tool for you. Shortcut and guess at the values and you will be chasing it for a while.

This is the most sound advise you will get. When I first started using Beersmith I did not make an accurate equipment profile and I was frustrated at every turn. I've migrated through three brew systems since then and with the newest I finally did a comprehensive measurement of volume losses and created a complete equipment profile. Oginme is right, the software should work for you, not against you.

Search Youtube for "Beersmith Equipment Profile". The one worth watching carefully and following exactly is from Short Circuited Brewers. The title says "Beersmith 2" but the process is the same if you are using BS3. Get it right and Beersmith will be your best friend. Skip this step and you will be frustrated every brew day.
 
This is the most sound advise you will get. When I first started using Beersmith I did not make an accurate equipment profile and I was frustrated at every turn. I've migrated through three brew systems since then and with the newest I finally did a comprehensive measurement of volume losses and created a complete equipment profile. Oginme is right, the software should work for you, not against you.

Search Youtube for "Beersmith Equipment Profile". The one worth watching carefully and following exactly is from Short Circuited Brewers. The title says "Beersmith 2" but the process is the same if you are using BS3. Get it right and Beersmith will be your best friend. Skip this step and you will be frustrated every brew day.
I will jump on that cause I cannot agree more than saying IT is here to help us ;)

I am sure my setup is way more simple than majority cause I'm only doing extract but I do have challenges to measure how much I loose transferring to fermenter for example
 
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