Beer not carbed? The horror.... the horror

[Nubiwan]

So I bottled off about 21 litres of red about 2 weeks ago. I was careful to use the brewing calculator this time, as my last IPA turned out a little lively owing to some "prime time" inattention. Tasted great, but a head on it like Vesuvius. With a proper head, and carb, it would have been even better.

So back to my red. I fermented at 64 degrees. Pretty sure I cold crashed for a few days at around 40. Using the carb chart, volume and ferment temp, the caclulato suggested 3/4 cups of primer, so that's what I did. Warmed up a small bit of water. Dissolved my (dextrose primer) in the water and poured into the bottom of my bottling pale. Racked off my primary which swirled up nicely in under 5 minutes, so figure all nicely mixed.

I bottled in swing top Grolsch bottles and let them sit at 68 degrees. At 12 days....could not wait out the full 14, I stuck one in the fridge to cool overnight. It is decidedly flat when I opened it today. Largely flavourable, but flat as an ironing board. Hence the thread title. It's drinkable, but I would not serve this to my mother in law.

So, do my sugars and process sound right? Can I blame my swing tops perhaps for not holding the co2? Father Time just not read yet to give me carbed beer in this short time?

I took my three crates and stuck them in a bedroom with the heat secured around 74. I might go pop one today to see if perhaps it was a dud bottle seal, which I have now read is fairly common.

Any other thoughts? Impatience is my middle name when it comes to brewing. Hoping that is the case here.

 

[Jag75]

12 days isnt long enough. What is the abv? Bigger beers take a little longer . I dont think it's far off though . 3 weeks seems to be the wheelhouse from my experience. At 2.2 volumes @68 degrees it takes 1/2 cup. That's if 21 Liters = 5 gallons.

 

[FatDragon]

My beers are usually carbed within a few days, but occasionally a batch decides to take weeks rather than days just to make me sweat and question whether or not I actually added my priming sugar. "Standard" procedure is to wait three weeks, which doesn't hurt most of the time because it's a pretty rare batch - other than some high gravity brews - that won't carb up within that time frame.

 

[Nubiwan]

Hmm - sure did test me. I will now grow a patience beard for playoff hockey. Thinking maybe I shoulda left it in the fridge a bit longer too. I just get so excited. Give it another week or two. Fingers crossed.

Yes FatDragon, funny how you begin to question the actual addition of that priming sugar.

 

[Nubiwan]

12 days isnt long enough. What is the abv? Bigger beers take a little longer . I dont think it's far off though . 3 weeks seems to be the wheelhouse from my experience. At 2.2 volumes @68 degrees it takes 1/2 cup. That's if 21 Liters = 5 gallons.

my ABV is about 5%. I calculated off probably 21 liters and I think 2.7 CO2, and 64 degrees temp. I got a figure suggested 3/4 cup dex, so that is the way it went. Seem to remember even adding a little more dex, but results where not flattering, but flat. Have to wait longer. Maybe shakem up. Thinking perhaps a dodgy flip top may be the culprit too. There was something just not right about the way the cap came off the bottle, as I recall. Too scared to waste another beer now just to see if its carbed.

 

[thehaze]

What's 3/4 cups in grams? A priming calculator will tell you that for 21 liters and 2.7 vol. CO2 you would need to add around 170 gr of Dextrose, which is aprox. 6 oz. I will however say that 2.7 is a bit high for a Red Ale and coupled with the 5%, will probably feel thin and fizzy.

If the process was correct and everything was done OK, you will have pleasent/satisfactory carbonation at 3-5 days in the bottles ( kept at 68-72F ) no matter what. This is my own experience in almost 70 batches and with beers ranging from 4 to 10% ABV. My latest Porter came in at 9.5% ( OG: 1.090 / FG: 1.018 ) and carbonation had developed within 5 days with no added yeast. I do however make sure to pitch plenty of yeast for those beers over 1.075.

I too use flip tops ( from belgians, german beers, etc. ) and never had an issue with the tops not holding carbonation. Even Grolsch bottles do a extremely well job. They are thick and resistant and easy to use.

Even at 68F and 12 days later, your beer should have had carbonation. A beer has carbonation no matter the temperature. Granted, when warm, a lot of CO2 is not in the beer and will escape fast once you cap off, but still... When I try a beer, I usually put in the freezer for 15-20 minutes, enough to get it down to 36-37F.

The lack of carbonation could be something else, like an even distribution of the dextrose solution or lazy yeast, although I doubt it for something like 5%.

Try another bottle after you've left the bottles at 74F for 3 days. Pop it in the fridge for 2 hours and try. Make sure your glass is clean and freshly rinsed with cold water.

 

[Nubiwan]

What's 3/4 cups in grams? A priming calculator will tell you that for 21 liters and 2.7 vol. CO2 you would need to add around 170 gr of Dextrose, which is aprox. 6 oz. I will however say that 2.7 is a bit high for a Red Ale and coupled with the 5%, will probably feel thin and fizzy.

If the process was correct and everything was done OK, you will have pleasent/satisfactory carbonation at 3-5 days in the bottles ( kept at 68-72F ) no matter what. This is my own experience in almost 70 batches and with beers ranging from 4 to 10% ABV. My latest Porter came in at 9.5% ( OG: 1.090 / FG: 1.018 ) and carbonation had developed within 5 days with no added yeast. I do however make sure to pitch plenty of yeast for those beers over 1.075.

I too use flip tops ( from belgians, german beers, etc. ) and never had an issue with the tops not holding carbonation. Even Grolsch bottles do a extremely well job. They are thick and resistant and easy to use.

Even at 68F and 12 days later, your beer should have had carbonation. A beer has carbonation no matter the temperature. Granted, when warm, a lot of CO2 is not in the beer and will escape fast once you cap off, but still... When I try a beer, I usually put in the freezer for 15-20 minutes, enough to get it down to 36-37F.

The lack of carbonation could be something else, like an even distribution of the dextrose solution or lazy yeast, although I doubt it for something like 5%.

Try another bottle after you've left the bottles at 74F for 3 days. Pop it in the fridge for 2 hours and try. Make sure your glass is clean and freshly rinsed with cold water.

Hence the mystery. Should have expected good carbonation.

Used 3/4 cup of dextrose. Dissolved in water, placed in bottling pale and added my primary to that. It swirled around, so I am assuming a decent even mix (without stirring and oxygenating), but again, this process introduces another potential for varied carbonation (in bottling) that is not full proof.

The calculator here uses cup measurements for those who asked. https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator

Since I am really never sure my volume in US Gallons, it is difficult to estimate exactly what bottling volume I will have left over my trub, so the calulation has an inherent built in margin of error.

I am intrigued to see if my other bottles will be carbonated now, as I know my process was the same as always. Will try one later.

 

[Nubiwan]

I popped open a warm bottle in my lack of patience. It wasted a beer in reflection. It was carbed. Pissy warm and carbed. Decent enough taste. Just cant drink it warm. Not brightly carbed, but better than the last effort. I'll give them another few days at 74 degrees, and see where they sit.

 

[ncbrewer]

I popped open a warm bottle in my lack of patience. It wasted a beer in reflection. It was carbed. Pissy warm and carbed. Decent enough taste. Just cant drink it warm. Not brightly carbed, but better than the last effort. I'll give them another few days at 74 degrees, and see where they sit.

I suggest putting the next one in the fridge a day before opening it. That lets more CO2 dissolve.

 

[Nubiwan]

I suggest putting the next one in the fridge a day before opening it. That lets more CO2 dissolve.

Back into the beer? I thought that, but earlier responses seemed ot negate the idea. Perhaps just not made clear. The longer in fridge make it any more carbonated? Like 2-3 days better than 1?

 

[FatDragon]

Back into the beer? I thought that, but earlier responses seemed ot negate the idea. Perhaps just not made clear. The longer in fridge make it any more carbonated? Like 2-3 days better than 1?

Yes. Cold temps and time help the CO2 to go into solution in the beer and not just hang out in the headspace. I find that a day is rarely enough to make a big difference, and it tends to improve for as long as a week before reaching maximum dissolution of the CO2. As a bonus, the beer spends that time clearing up as well if you care about that sort of thing.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The longer in fridge make it any more carbonated? Like 2-3 days better than 1?

Only if there's excess CO2 (pressure) in the headspace. Carbonation won't generally continue in the fridge, but some CO2 that's already in the bottle (headspace pressure) will dissolve into the beer at cold temperatures than won't dissolve at warm temperatures. I'd guess that its a law of diminishing returns situation with a week being close to 100%, about three days giving maybe 90% of the potential CO2 being dissolved and maybe 60% after 1 day (figures pulled out of the deep-dark regions so don't rely on them). An hour or two in the freezer is probably better than 50% and constitutes more than half of my non-keg drinking.

 

[z-bob]

My recent Kentucky Common took a full 2 months to carb. I've never had that happen before. I suspect it's because the recipe had so much corn in it, I should have added some yeast nutrient. I had given up on it after a month and started drinking it flat. Glad I didn't drink all of it like that.

 

[brewfrog]

I think thirteen days at 68 was needed.nutrient might help?but maybe adding a tablespoon of white coffee sugar would fix this for next time. priming sugar sometimes is a little weak.

 

[Nubiwan]

Hence the mystery. Should have expected good carbonation.

Used 3/4 cup of dextrose. Dissolved in water, placed in bottling pale and added my primary to that. It swirled around, so I am assuming a decent even mix (without stirring and oxygenating), but again, this process introduces another potential for varied carbonation (in bottling) that is not full proof.

The calculator here uses cup measurements for those who asked. https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator

Since I am really never sure my volume in US Gallons, it is difficult to estimate exactly what bottling volume I will have left over my trub, so the calulation has an inherent built in margin of error.

I am intrigued to see if my other bottles will be carbonated now, as I know my process was the same as always. Will try one later.

I just checked my brewer notes on this. It appears that my priming sugar was a blend of dextrose and DME. I mixed 3/4 cups of straight Dex, and what I had left over from a blended pack of Dex and DME, so I am guessing I am undercarbed becuse of that. DME not a fermentable - or is it? I would guess that a 3rd of my 3/4 cup was therefore DME.

So, I am wondering what can be done. Been over a month now. Cracked one from the fridge agaion yesterday and lifeless. Very slight carb on the beer, but decent taste. Just too flat to enjoy over a half hour it takes to drink.

Should I open each bottle and add sugar? Just let it sit longer (how long)? Been 5 weeks since I bottled.

 

[Nubiwan]

My recent Kentucky Common took a full 2 months to carb. I've never had that happen before. I suspect it's because the recipe had so much corn in it, I should have added some yeast nutrient. I had given up on it after a month and started drinking it flat. Glad I didn't drink all of it like that.

LOL - my beer does taste good. Just gnarly flat. Very annoying. Looking for a Guardian Angel to help me correct this. Where is that @Revvy bloke?

 

[NGD]

DME not a fermentable - or is it? I would guess that a 3rd of my 3/4 cup was therefore DME.

Should I open each bottle and add sugar? Just let it sit longer (how long)? Been 5 weeks since I bottled.

DME is a fermentable, but not as fermentable as straight dextrose. Your beer should have a bit more body.

Sounds like you did everything correct temp wise.

Does it look like you have a good layer of sediment at the bottom? Any hiss when you open the bottle? Any chance the rubber O-rings are bad on the flip tops?

Next bottle you try..save some for a gravity reading. If its really high compared to your FG then obviously it didn’t ferment out. I would add a little yeast that can chew through more complex sugars under pressure. Something like a little cbc-1 to each bottle.
https://www.homebrewing.org/Lallemand-CBC-1-Cask-and-Bottle-Conditioning-Yeast-11-GRAM_p_3043.

At this point I’d do one of a few things

1. Wait. Give it another month and leave it alone. Then pop one in the fridge for 2-3 days. I’ve found patience in this hobby helps greatly. I’m also impatient.
2. Shake them gently for a few days to rouse the yeast.
3. Pop and add cbc-1 yeast
4. Drink them flat and say screw it

 

[z-bob]

DME is a fermentable, but not as fermentable as straight dextrose. Your beer should have a bit more body.

Sounds like you did everything correct temp wise.

Does it look like you have a good layer of sediment at the bottom? Any hiss when you open the bottle? Any chance the rubber O-rings are bad on the flip tops?

Next bottle you try..save some for a gravity reading. If its really high compared to your FG then obviously it didn’t ferment out. I would add a little yeast that can chew through more complex sugars under pressure. Something like a little cbc-1 to each bottle.
https://www.homebrewing.org/Lallemand-CBC-1-Cask-and-Bottle-Conditioning-Yeast-11-GRAM_p_3043.

At this point I’d do one of a few things

1. Wait. Give it another month and leave it alone. Then pop one in the fridge for 2-3 days. I’ve found patience in this hobby helps greatly. I’m also impatient.
2. Shake them gently for a few days to rouse the yeast.
3. Pop and add cbc-1 yeast
4. Drink them flat and say screw it

You can also get a 12-pack of something like Natty Ice (strong, fizzy, no character at all but not really watery) and mix it with your flat beer at serving time. It won't dilute the flavor as much as you'd expect. Or if your beer is too sweet, do the same thing with Michelob Ultra (which is dry and kinda watery)

 

[NGD]

You can also get a 12-pack of something like Natty Ice (strong, fizzy, no character at all but not really watery) and mix it with your flat beer at serving time. It won't dilute the flavor as much as you'd expect. Or if your beer is too sweet, do the same thing with Michelob Ultra (which is dry and kinda watery)

Hah! Never even thought about that. Do this! Screw waiting around...drink up!

 

[Drebin138]

You can also get a 12-pack of something like Natty Ice (strong, fizzy, no character at all but not really watery) and mix it with your flat beer at serving time. It won't dilute the flavor as much as you'd expect. Or if your beer is too sweet, do the same thing with Michelob Ultra (which is dry and kinda watery)

Do you think this approach would work with a brown ale? I’ve had a similar experience as OP with a brown that just didn’t carbonate. Tastes great just undrinkably flat but I really wanna to try to salvage it.

 

[z-bob]

Do you think this approach would work with a brown ale? I’ve had a similar experience as OP with a brown that just didn’t carbonate. Tastes great just undrinkably flat but I really wanna to try to salvage it.

I don't know, but I think so. It certainly seems worth a try.

 

[balrog]

late to party, but I bought brandy new flip tops that wouldn't hold carb (2.0-2.2 calc'd) to save their lives. I replaced the gaskets, which were thicker and more pliable than the ones they came with, and all was well with the world. One man's experience.

 

[Ronald C Gregory]

I popped open a warm bottle in my lack of patience. It wasted a beer in reflection. It was carbed. Pissy warm and carbed. Decent enough taste. Just cant drink it warm. Not brightly carbed, but better than the last effort. I'll give them another few days at 74 degrees, and see where they sit.

I actually keep a few metal steins for this type of testing. I am also not a fan of piss warm beer, so 15 or so minutes before opening the warm beer i pop a metal stein into my freezer. it chills the beer enough after a few minutes to be able to enjoy it.

only time I have had issues with carbonation personally was when a cold snap dropped the temp where i store my beer to almost freezing. damn Ohio weather

 

[Velnerj]

About half of my bottles are flip tops. I had issues with them because they were cheap plastic tops. When I switched them to porcelain I didn't have any carbing issues.

 

[balrog]

Please just remember it is about the equilibrium of a supposedly closed system.

Warm beer will *NOT* hold as much dissolved CO2 as cold beer.
A closed system (bottle) that is warm will therefore have higher headspace pressure, and less CO2 in solution and the INSTANT you release pressure, you have a new closed system of warm beer and the Earth's atmosphere at lower pressure. CO2 will come out of solution. No two ways about it.

Chill the beer. It will be in equilibrium. Open beer and CO2 will start to come out, but since beer is cold it will hold on to CO2 better.

 

[toxdoc49]

Hence the mystery. Should have expected good carbonation.

Used 3/4 cup of dextrose. Dissolved in water, placed in bottling pale and added my primary to that. It swirled around, so I am assuming a decent even mix (without stirring and oxygenating), but again, this process introduces another potential for varied carbonation (in bottling) that is not full proof.

The calculator here uses cup measurements for those who asked. https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator

Since I am really never sure my volume in US Gallons, it is difficult to estimate exactly what bottling volume I will have left over my trub, so the calulation has an inherent built in margin of error.

I am intrigued to see if my other bottles will be carbonated now, as I know my process was the same as always. Will try one later.

I'm curious as to whether the priming sugar calculator result can be used whether an extract recipe or all grain recipe was the basis for the beer. The kits typically include 16 oz of priming sugar which seems excessive compared to the calculator result. Is that just to insure you will definitely have carbonation? I have an all grain Imperial IPA I am bottling very soon and don't want to under-carbonate. I was just used to adding 16oz to my bottling bucket. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Soulshine2]

So I bottled off about 21 litres of red about 2 weeks ago. I was careful to use the brewing calculator this time, as my last IPA turned out a little lively owing to some "prime time" inattention. Tasted great, but a head on it like Vesuvius. With a proper head, and carb, it would have been even better.

So back to my red. I fermented at 64 degrees. Pretty sure I cold crashed for a few days at around 40. Using the carb chart, volume and ferment temp, the caclulato suggested 3/4 cups of primer, so that's what I did. Warmed up a small bit of water. Dissolved my (dextrose primer) in the water and poured into the bottom of my bottling pale. Racked off my primary which swirled up nicely in under 5 minutes, so figure all nicely mixed.

I bottled in swing top Grolsch bottles and let them sit at 68 degrees. At 12 days....could not wait out the full 14, I stuck one in the fridge to cool overnight. It is decidedly flat when I opened it today. Largely flavourable, but flat as an ironing board. Hence the thread title. It's drinkable, but I would not serve this to my mother in law.

So, do my sugars and process sound right? Can I blame my swing tops perhaps for not holding the co2? Father Time just not read yet to give me carbed beer in this short time?

I took my three crates and stuck them in a bedroom with the heat secured around 74. I might go pop one today to see if perhaps it was a dud bottle seal, which I have now read is fairly common.

Any other thoughts? Impatience is my middle name when it comes to brewing. Hoping that is the case here.

You had 21 liters which is 5.54 gallons , your priming addition should have been fine . Even though you swirled in the beer to the bottling bucket , did you give it a good stir too?
I've popped caps on day 10 and had plenty of carbonation but a full 2 week wait is better. Have patience,young paduan .The force within has not reached full potential.
I usually save off a bottle in a grolsch bottle for my first taste too, so far no issues .If yours was entirely flat , it could be you have a bad seal on the bottle top or maybe just need to be patient another few days. Try one on Sunday and see if theres a difference.

 

[balrog]

I'm curious as to whether the priming sugar calculator result can be used whether an extract recipe or all grain recipe was the basis for the beer. The kits typically include 16 oz of priming sugar which seems excessive compared to the calculator result. Is that just to insure you will definitely have carbonation? I have an all grain Imperial IPA I am bottling very soon and don't want to under-carbonate. I was just used to adding 16oz to my bottling bucket. Thanks for any advice.

Source of maltose is not important, no.
16oz seems wowieszowie big.
I would use what the calculators tell me.

 

[NGD]

I'm curious as to whether the priming sugar calculator result can be used whether an extract recipe or all grain recipe was the basis for the beer. The kits typically include 16 oz of priming sugar which seems excessive compared to the calculator result. Is that just to insure you will definitely have carbonation? I have an all grain Imperial IPA I am bottling very soon and don't want to under-carbonate. I was just used to adding 16oz to my bottling bucket. Thanks for any advice.

I’ve never seen a kit with 16oz of priming sugar. Usually its 5oz for a 5g batch and even then I’m using a calculator to make sure I don’t overcarb.

 

[ncbrewer]

The kits typically include 16 oz of priming sugar which seems excessive compared to the calculator result. Is that just to insure you will definitely have carbonation? I have an all grain Imperial IPA I am bottling very soon and don't want to under-carbonate.

Under-carbing isn't good, but over-carbing can cause bottle bombs - much, much worse. Definitely don't over prime.

 

[toxdoc49]

Thank you; I mis-quoted myself on the amount of priming sugar. I ended up using what the priming sugar calculator suggested for corn sugar. Another lesson learned!

 

[toxdoc49]

I’ve never seen a kit with 16oz of priming sugar. Usually its 5oz for a 5g batch and even then I’m using a calculator to make sure I don’t overcarb.

You are right; I mis-quoted myself. Apologies and thank you.

 

[NGD]

You are right; I mis-quoted myself. Apologies and thank you.

No worries, figured it was a mistake. I did buy a kit once that came with 10 or 15oz of corn sugar. 5 was for bottling and the rest was to be added during fermentation to dry the beer out. Boy was I puzzled when I first checked the ingredients though.

One thing to be aware of is even the priming sugar calculators can vary a fair amount depending on what math they use. I personally shoot for low to middle of the range for the style.

Heres an example I ran for fun this morning. This is the suggested amounts of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch of American pale ale, 68f shooting for 2.4 vols of CO2.

Morebeer: 4.53oz
Brewunited: 4.16oz
Northern Brewer: 4.16oz
Hopstiener: 4.13
Hickory brewer: 4.13

Also keep a lookout for what volume the style generator uses. While I adjusted for 2.4 volumes, Hickory brewer shot for 2.53 just using the style guide.

Either way, have fun. Don’t shoot high and measure twice.