Balancing malt sweetness and hop bitterness
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TopherM
Well-Known Member
That formula is a good starting point for a ratio that creates a good balance in the beer. Just remember, a good 1.0 ratio balance means that neither the hop bitterness or malt sweetness shine through, and there are TONS of styles where you want one or the other to dominate the brew, so the ratio is less important in those styles.
Bottom line, it's a guideline, not some sort of natural law!
Bottom line, it's a guideline, not some sort of natural law!
beergolf
Well-Known Member
It is best to use the BU:GU ratio for the style you are interested in.
Everyone mentions balance, but that is not really the correct term. What works for one style is totally wrong for another. For example a BU:GU ratio of 1.0 is great for an IPA but totally will not work for a BDSA, which the average BU:GU ratio is .297.
Here is a good link that shows the BU:GU ratios for most styles.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ai1Yv492QZYUdFN1YWpYZTFxUm1reWN2WEx2a0xpUkE
Everyone mentions balance, but that is not really the correct term. What works for one style is totally wrong for another. For example a BU:GU ratio of 1.0 is great for an IPA but totally will not work for a BDSA, which the average BU:GU ratio is .297.
Here is a good link that shows the BU:GU ratios for most styles.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ai1Yv492QZYUdFN1YWpYZTFxUm1reWN2WEx2a0xpUkE
beergolf
Well-Known Member
That is a balance point. But again, it does not work for all styles. .5 is still too bitter for some styles and not bitter enough for others.
Get the idea of balance out of your head and put the idea of ratio for the style in it's place.
Here is another example. American lager .256. German pils .745. Big difference but true to style.
Again balance to style not a number.
I was thinking that (.5) meant an even malt hop balance. Just to be clear you're saying it's not? The number just represents a balance relative to each style?
beergolf
Well-Known Member
Just brewed this. Used a ratio of .54 We'll see how it goes...
Honey Ale
IBU 28.7
OG 1.053
8 lbs 2 row
1/2 lb crystal 20L
1/2 lb biscuit malt
1/2 lb honey malt
1/3 lb cara-pils
1 lb raw wildflower honey (added during cool down @ 150 degrees)
1.15 oz Fuggles @ 60
1.3 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 10
.7 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 1.5
Wyeast 1332 pitched a 74 degrees
Set temp controller @ 66 degrees
Honey Ale
IBU 28.7
OG 1.053
8 lbs 2 row
1/2 lb crystal 20L
1/2 lb biscuit malt
1/2 lb honey malt
1/3 lb cara-pils
1 lb raw wildflower honey (added during cool down @ 150 degrees)
1.15 oz Fuggles @ 60
1.3 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 10
.7 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker @ 1.5
Wyeast 1332 pitched a 74 degrees
Set temp controller @ 66 degrees
alestateyall
Well-Known Member
The Beersmith blog has a nice article on this topic.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/09/26/balancing-your-beer-with-the-bitterness-ratio/
http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/09/26/balancing-your-beer-with-the-bitterness-ratio/
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
A big shortcoming of this IBU/SG measure is that it doesn't consider final gravity or other unfermentables. If you're just making a standard beer true to style, no problem; just use the typical style range. I seek a sweeter finish on some of my beers, so I have to compensate accordingly.
And consider Rogue Dead Guy. (What style IBU/SG would you even use anyway?). It's made with 30% Munich and 0.5 IBU/SG (Tinseth). But I find that a bit unbalanced, I.e. more hops would help offset the malty sweetness.
And consider Rogue Dead Guy. (What style IBU/SG would you even use anyway?). It's made with 30% Munich and 0.5 IBU/SG (Tinseth). But I find that a bit unbalanced, I.e. more hops would help offset the malty sweetness.
Good point, I had a hard time coming up with an IBU range for this honey ale recipe. From what I understand honey's sweetness ferments out almost completely. That could really be misleading when trying to target a balance.
I think what he meant was that .5 should feel balanced between malt and hop on your tongue. An IPA at .5 would feel neither toward malt or hop, just like with a blonde ale. a .5 ratio is what should feel balanced without considering style.
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
You definitely can't simply say 0.5 is "balanced" for all styles. Dead Guy uses lots of Munich malt and finishes high, so it's VERY sweet. As a result, 0.5 is far from balanced. 0.6 to 0.7 would be balanced to most of us. Similarly, an imperial stout (like Southern Tier style) that finishes high needs around 0.7 to 0.8.
But OTOH, Saisons finish so dry that you can achieve similar balance at 0.4.
I get what you mean. Yeah FG also matter so that's why you were talking about styles. I didn't understand that.
If all beer finished at the same FG a value of 0.5 would be "balanced". (Depending of the FG of course).
The FG could be calculated as an offset. Let's say that a ratio of 0.5 IBU/OG at 1.010 FG is what feel balanced between malt and hop. Any points over 1.010 would reduce the ratio by .10 (FG of 1.011 would mean a ratio of .490). And logically any points below 1.010 would increase the ratio by .10.
Just food for thought... Why .10? No idea, this seems like a good value to pick
ShootsNRoots
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How much residual sweetness is left by various malts/fermentables? It's difficult to answer.
Yeast attenuation may be a little more predictable.
The "balance" for a beer is best done by experience and experimentation. This is why it's so important to have a repeatable process.
logdrum
Well-Known Member
The nature of the hops used is also a factor:
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.1/tinseth.html
Some hops simply present as more balanced-an all Glacier Pale Ale @ 1.0 BU:GU will probably come across as smoother, more balanced than an all Centennial Pale Ale @ .75
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.1/tinseth.html
Some hops simply present as more balanced-an all Glacier Pale Ale @ 1.0 BU:GU will probably come across as smoother, more balanced than an all Centennial Pale Ale @ .75
Hop preference is subjective.
logdrum
Well-Known Member
What I'm trying to get across, is that raw IBU numbers are not the only factor to be considered. I'm not talking about preference, I'm saying to keep in mind, that different hops contain various level of oils & compounds that are utilized & isomerized differently & that will affect the final perceived bitterness.>All IBUs are not created equally.
Yankeepride15
Active Member
Aren't they though? I agree centennial would be more harsh considering they're a higher alpha hop. I see where you're coming from though. Just did an IPA with 18% Apollo as a flavor addition. They really stand out but the low cohumulone level allows the bitterness to roll right off the tongue. But that's just my palate. Someone else might think it tastes horrible.
logdrum
Well-Known Member
See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The AA% doesn't take into account the secondary characteristics-myrcene, farnesene, cohumulone etc.-and by itself is only part of the picture. Granted, you have to have some reference points, so BU:GU is a logical place to start.
