Looking for Brew Jedi to help me with experiment

[gypsysrevenge]

I posted an earlier thread about wanting to make beer with indigenous plants and ingredients to my area. I've since decided to go in a different direction and I'm looking for a brewing genius that could maybe help me along with this experiment.

1.) I've decided to buy yeast as opposed to trying to harvest them from the wild.

2.) I want to use honey as opposed to sugar because I know of many Texas bee keepers that I can buy native Texas honey from. (I think this addition to what I'm trying to do would make this mead instead of beer, but there is a good chance that by the end of it, the recipe that i'm looking for wont resemble anything.)

3.) In my area, I have access to Texas persimmon, dandelions, Texas thistles, and amaranth. In the idea of making it like beer, I know that dandelion roots and leaves can be very bitter, and the same is true about thistles. I was looking to replace hops in my recipe with these bitter veggies.
Texas persimmon is sweet, and could possible give a fruity or sweet flavor?
Amaranth seedlings can be baked and used in the stead of barley.

4.) I've also considered using purified water streams or creaks in the area, but this can be thrown out the window at the first mention of being a health or taste issue.


So that's where I'm at as far as what i'm looking to possible put into my brewed, fermented concoction. If anyone looked at those ingredients and think that they can help me on my journey, I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Well, I am in no way a brewing jedi, and am still learning myself but for the water you will be fine with creek/stream water. Since you are boiling the 'wort' it will still be sterile after. Dandilion and thistle have both been used before for bittering additions so that should be okay as well. Honey, is often used in beers as an extra boost to fermentable content as well as flavoring.

So, there is going to be no barley whatsoever and you plan on getting all of the fermentables from honey?

 

[Pratzie]

Not really able to help out with advice or anything but i'm subscribing to hear how this works out. Goodluck, i'm sure someone here will be able to help!

 

[unionrdr]

One thing to remember about dandelion greens is they're only bitter after the plant has bloomed. That's why those of us that cook with them want the "new" plants that haven't bloomed yet. then the greens are also great in wonton soup derivatives. Also,collecting the immature buds on top of the crown of the plants are like baby brussel sprouts. the flowers give a very slightly sweet yellowish color to wines & such. Might give mead a nice lil bit of color.
I still think mesquite tree beans would be good dried & crushed. I remember velvet mesquite as one of the species being better flavored. There's a thread here about it somewhere.
Diferent kinds of honey indiginous to the flora in your area could be interesting as well. Different flowers give different flavor complexities.

 

[gr8shandini]

Is the goal for this to be 100% local? If so, it seems like a mead might be your best bet. I'm not familiar with amaranth, but from what I read, it seems like it could work as a base. However, you're going to need to malt the amaranth or add some enzymes to get conversion. If you use the fruit or honey as flavor / secondary fermentables, I'd add it at the end of primary or in the secondary so as not to drive off the aromatics with a boil or vigorous fermentation.

For the bittering herbs, I'd start by making a "tea" with them to get an idea for the flavors. Once you get the proportions right, I'd compare it to a hop tea of known IBU to get an idea of how much you'd need. I'm guessing it's going to be much, much more than the equivalent amount of hops.

As for water, the stuff coming out of your tap is already purified and comes from a local source. Pulling it from a backyard stream might be more "romantic," but probably won't yield any different results. Not worth the hassle, in my opinion. But, as was mentioned earlier you'll be boiling it, so it wouldn't pose a health risk.

Finally, I'd consider doing a series of 1 gallon batches. You could make several gallons of wort/must, split it into 1 gallon portions, and then treat them with a few different combinations of herbs and compare. I'm guessing that a project like this would require a lot of experimentation and this approach would speed up that process.

Oh, and speaking of experimentation, treat it just like that. Take insanely detailed notes, and only change one variable at a time so you know what caused what. It's not every day that someone comes up with an entirely new brewing method, so I hope this turns out well for you. Keep us posted.

 

[gypsysrevenge]

Wow. That information is exactly the kind I'm looking for. Thanks for such a detailed idea on how to move forward with this. So if I use honey as the primary fragmentary agent, and I'm considering putting in fruit for flavor, I should wait to add the fruit later in the brewing process. Did I catch that right?

 

[unionrdr]

Just like regular beer,add fruit in secondary. Maybe prickly pears?

 

[rodwha]

I'm still a padawan, and not a young one anymore. But I'm interested.

 

[gr8shandini]

Wow. That information is exactly the kind I'm looking for. Thanks for such a detailed idea on how to move forward with this. So if I use honey as the primary fragmentary agent, and I'm considering putting in fruit for flavor, I should wait to add the fruit later in the brewing process. Did I catch that right?

Thanks. I should warn you, though, that I haven't done anything like this before. It's just how I would go about it.

If you're planning to use honey as the main source of sugar, you're looking at a mead or braggot. I haven't done either, but I believe there's a section for those on here. If you post your request over there you'll probably get some more responses for people who know what they're doing.

 

[rodwha]

Not knowing I ended up making something like a braggot after adding 3 3/4 lbs of honey to a honey wheat beer (5.3 gal). It was fairly thin, and we didn't care much for it at first. Several months later and it's not too bad.