bock with kolsch yeast (WLP029) ?

[GrogNerd]

My niece is having her first baby in the spring, so I wanted to celebrate by brewing up a nice springtime beer, like a Maibock

brew day coming up in late January/early February but I will have no means to lager.

plenty of clone recipes for Dead Guy, but want to stay away from those. not really what I want to brew to celebrate the birth of a baby. tough to explain to the family where I got the recipe (& they do ask)

plenty of regular Maibock recipes around, wondering about using one of those but pitching with White Labs German Ale/Kolsch WL029

any thoughts? questions? comments? concerns? threats?

recipes?

 

[Brulosopher]

I'm a huge fan of WLP029, as it produces a very crisp, clean, and dry beer. Beautiful for mock-lager types. Despite White Labs' recommendation to ferment this yeast on the warmer side (65-69F), I've had great success pitching at 60F, letting it ramp up to about 64F over 3 days, then letting get up to 68F for the following week to clean up. After a 10 day ferment, I crash cool to 32-34F for 2 days, keg, and let it lager/condition for another 2-4 weeks while carbonating- this is about how long it takes for a beer using this yeast to drop bright. And it tastes incredible.

Congrats on the new family member! Cheers.

 

[permo]

I have tried and I think WLP029 works best for....Kolsch. It seems to add fruitiness and crispness to a bock style that I found off putting. However, I have found that wyeast 1007 fermented at 55-60 degrees could easily be mistaken for lager.

 

[GrogNerd]

bouncing back and forth between WLP003 and 029 (LHBS carries White Labs & just noticed they don't carry 003), but several Wyeast vs White Labs comparison charts are saying 1007 German Ale Yeast = WLP029 German / Kolsch Ale Yeast

grainbill is Jamil's Maibock; 2 to 1 Pilsner to Munich with 25 IBU of magnum at 60min

 

[permo]

several Wyeast vs White Labs comparison charts are saying 1007 German Ale Yeast = WLP029 German / Kolsch Ale Yeast

I have used both extensively and they arent the same. WLP029 will drop out below 60 and 1007 just keeps on going and is MUCH cleaner. WLP029 gives you that mild fruit, white wine undertone that kolsch if famous for. I get none of the from 1007....just cleanliness

 

[GrogNerd]

I have used both extensively and they arent the same. WLP029 will drop out below 60 and 1007 just keeps on going and is MUCH cleaner. WLP029 gives you that mild fruit, white wine undertone that kolsch if famous for. I get none of the from 1007....just cleanliness

I appreciate the awesome feedback, thanks!

now I'm finding a link to a "better" comparison chart that says 1007 German Ale Yeast = WLP036 Düsseldorf Alt Yeast

 

[zeg]

I appreciate the awesome feedback, thanks!

now I'm finding a link to a "better" comparison chart that says 1007 German Ale Yeast = WLP036 Düsseldorf Alt Yeast

Well, alts and kolsches are both hybrid beers, so perhaps confusion between the two is not surprising.

 

[permo]

I find WLP029 to be anything but lager like and to hate cold temperatures. I find 1007 loves cool temps and may very well be the most lager like ale yeast I have ever encountered. Pacman ale yeast is known for cold temp ferements, but I have no doubt that 1007 could ferment in the mid to low 50s and be super clean. Thats the yeast I would choose to emulate a lager.

 

[GrogNerd]

might have to smackapack!

 

[permo]

might have to smackapack!

To make a pseudo cold ferment ale bock I sure would.

 

[Brulosopher]

I find WLP029 to be anything but lager like and to hate cold temperatures. I find 1007 loves cool temps and may very well be the most lager like ale yeast I have ever encountered. Pacman ale yeast is known for cold temp ferements, but I have no doubt that 1007 could ferment in the mid to low 50s and be super clean. Thats the yeast I would choose to emulate a lager.

Huh. That has certainly not been my experience with 029. I've fermented at it at 61F and it easily passed for a lager. If someone can control temps at 55F, may as well just use a lager yeast and go a couple degrees cooler.

 

[GrogNerd]

Huh. That has certainly not been my experience with 029. I've fermented at it at 61F and it easily passed for a lager. If someone can control temps at 55F, may as well just use a lager yeast and go a couple degrees cooler.

been a little warm lately and the unfinished part of my basement was getting into the upper 60ºs, but while I was fermenting my AIPA, it was low 60s, easy.

if it got colder outside, I'm sure it could get down to 55º, but I doubt that much lower

maybe I ought to do a 10-gallon batch and try both 1007 & 029?

 

[Brulosopher]

been a little warm lately and the unfinished part of my basement was getting into the upper 60ºs, but while I was fermenting my AIPA, it was low 60s, easy.

if it got colder outside, I'm sure it could get down to 55º, but I doubt that much lower

maybe I ought to do a 10-gallon batch and try both 1007 & 029?

That be awesome! My initial assumption is that some of the fruitiness came from all the hops in your AIPA . I used 029 in an APA and it was almost too clean/crisp.

 

[GrogNerd]

guess I was not clear. the AIPA was just bottled this past Saturday and I have no idea how it has turned out, other than tasting the hydro sample, which was pretty dang good. that was done with WLP008, East Coast/Sam Adams.

the mock Maibock is set for production late January/early February

 

[GrogNerd]

and not really wanting to go with the 10 gallon split batch. I do have the fermentation equipment to do it.

however

I have been doing partial boil extract and all grain on stove top with a Zapap, but Santa is bringing me a burner + 8 gallon BK + cooler to convert to mash tun.

I'm looking forward to my first full boil batch & 10 gallon batch would mean partial boil again

 

[Beernik]

Bump

How did this turn out and which yeast did you end up going with?

I've been thinking about doing more-or-less the same thing for more-or-less the same reason.

I wanted to brew my sister-in-law a bock to be ready for her when her baby is born in August. January was too cold to brew outside. February, I was short on funds. Now it's March and I'm losing the lager fermenting temperatures in my cellar.

 

[GrogNerd]

at the suggestion of my LHBS owner, i went to WLP060.

it's still in primary been fermenting in low 60s for 3 weeks, just moved it into the warmer part of the basement for tonight, tomorrow will set it outside overnight for cold crash and bottle on Saturday

will let you know how it goes then.

 

[elproducto]

I've switched to Kolsch yeast for all of my lagers. Ferment them cool at around 60, then lager for 3-4 weeks. Indistinguishable from the German Lager yeast I used in a split batch. In fact the Kolsch batch was ready sooner.

 

[GrogNerd]

I've switched to Kolsch yeast for all of my lagers. Ferment them cool at around 60, then lager for 3-4 weeks. Indistinguishable from the German Lager yeast I used in a split batch. In fact the Kolsch batch was ready sooner.

wish I had a means of lagering, but the unfinished part of my basement can only get into the upper 50s.

i am supposed to be getting a free fridge here soon, courtesy of a fellow home brew club member. might have to hold off on that bottling so I can lager a few weeks.

I had asked my LHBS owner about the Kolsch yeast but he recommended the 060.

 

[Brulosopher]

I'm a huge 029 fan... but I just tried out the 810 San Francisco Lager strain on a Cal Common (of course) and a Honey Blonde. It may be tied with 029, more malt than hop, so a good one for those styles.

 

[Beernik]

This might actually come together well.

I replaced the battery in my cellar thermometer. It's still in the low 40s in there. Looking at the weather forecast, Sunday's weather should be really nice. Looking at the extended forecast, I should have consistent mid-40F temperatures through fermentation.

By the time the ferment is over, I should be able to pick up a cheap used fridge for lagering it. Or at the worst, I'll commandeer the fridge in my wife's shop for a month. After all, it was my lagering fridge first.

 

[wickman6]

I have tried and I think WLP029 works best for....Kolsch. It seems to add fruitiness and crispness to a bock style that I found off putting. However, I have found that wyeast 1007 fermented at 55-60 degrees could easily be mistaken for lager.

I second the suggestion for 1007. It's a beast, ans super clean fermented low.

 

[GrogNerd]

update.

temps kept mostly in the very low 60s, it got up to 65° at height of fermentation, but then settled back down to low 60s again.

fermented for 3 weeks. 3 days before bottling brought it out to heated part of basement, bringing it up to 70°. night before bottling, I left it outside overnight temps down to 38°. racked and bottled. LHBS was out of corn sugar, so I had to use DME for priming.

3 weeks in bottles at 70°. put 2 bottles in fridge for 2 days and almost no carbonation, no head retention. not very clean, not clear, certainly not crisp. tastes OK, but a little bit of alcohol burn.

will put the rest into the fridge tonight and try in another week

 

[GrogNerd]

UPDATE

submitted to brew club competition under BJCP category 5A. Maibock/Helles Bock

out of 6 beers (2 Maibock, 1 Traditional Bock, 2 Doppelbocks & 1 Eisbock) I did not finish in top 3, but got many good comments, like "better than the calibration" which was a Gordon Biersch Maibock. brewer of the other Maibock also said he thought mine was better than his

dinged mostly on clarity and alcohol burn.

no one caught on that it was actually an ale