Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[Ostomo517]

Amylase is used commercially in quantities measured in parts per million. You probably still had enough for starch conversion. There is no telling how much is in these yeast balls.

I have never seen any indication of mold and since I shake mine often it would be hard for mold to grow as mold needs to grow undisturbed on the surface.

Ive done both shaken/stirred batches and the undisturbed batches are far superior and that includes mold on top

 

[captainskinnybeard]

Take a look at this website and their video. They are mixing dry ingredients and making them into balls. If they were doing something with live mold you would think they would be proud enough to show it off.

http://www.ontoyeast.ca/

I have read where traditionally the yeast balls were inoculated with live mold but just like sake making the mold is killed after the amylase is created and before the mold creates spores. Without spores the mold derived product cant create more mold.

 

[Ostomo517]

But also at the same time there are a lot of different brands and types of yeast balls being used. You cant just say thats the end all be all of it

 

[Leadgolem]

Take a look at this website and their video. They are mixing dry ingredients and making them into balls. It they were doing something with live mold you would think they would be proud enough to show it off.

http://www.ontoyeast.ca/

I have read where traditionally the yeast balls were inoculated with live yeast but just like sake making the yeast is killed after the amylase is created and before the mold creates spores. Without spores the mold derived product cant create more mold.

Here's the video.


The answer to your question I believe is no. Most people think all mold is gross, and/or poisonous. I suspect one of the dry products contains mold spores.

If you stir a batch you will break up the mold, but you won't kill it. Just because it isn't visible in a big clump doesn't mean it isn't in there.

Rice wine seems to have a fairly loose definition. Aspergillus oryzae is definitely used when making sake. Monascus purpureus is definitely used in making red rice wine. The later, being red, very obviously grows into the rice.

 

[captainskinnybeard]

The bottom line is that you need amylase in your rice in at least trace amounts. And since it is a readily available commodity in the food industry, manufactured by companies that specialize in making enzymes I don't see why a little company making yeast balls and selling them for $1.99 a package and trying to make a profit would fool around with live mold when they don't need to.

And by the way I am not phobic about mold. I scrape it off of aging hot sauce mash and don't worry about it.

 

[edds5p0]

Speaking of mold, I ended up with a very fluffy ball of mycelium on the top of my most recent batch. In the future, it may be smarter to mix it in instead of sprinkling on top. There seems to be little progress in the RYR breaking up the grains, I suppose the next few days will tell.

 

[WesleyS]

The bottom line is that you need amylase in your rice in at least trace amounts. And since it is a readily available commodity in the food industry, manufactured by companies that specialize in making enzymes I don't see why a little company making yeast balls and selling them for $1.99 a package and trying to make a profit would fool around with live mold when they don't need to.

And by the way I am not phobic about mold. I scrape it off of aging hot sauce mash and don't worry about it.

The bottom line is I really don't care. I cook my rice, I add crushed yeast balls from the Asian market, I put it in a container, and then 21 days later I have rice wine. Beyond that, I don't really care what the technical name of the resulting wine is and what is or isn't contained in the yeast balls.
A few days in, I do get white fluffy growth (looks like that fake spider web stuff for halloween decoration) with tiny black spores concentrated around any larger chunks of the crushed yeast balls. The fact that it appears to originate from the pieces of yeast ball, leads me to believe its from whatever is in the balls. It goes away after maybe a week. I don't stir or open my containers at all for the whole 21 days and everything comes out okay.

 

[Ostomo517]

The bottom line is that you need amylase in your rice in at least trace amounts. And since it is a readily available commodity in the food industry, manufactured by companies that specialize in making enzymes I don't see why a little company making yeast balls and selling them for $1.99 a package and trying to make a profit would fool around with live mold when they don't need to.

And by the way I am not phobic about mold. I scrape it off of aging hot sauce mash and don't worry about it.

Because its traditional

 

[captainskinnybeard]

Anyway, regardless of the source of the amylase, amylase doubles it's rate of conversion of starch to sugar that is available to the yeast every 10 degrees C. Traditionally rice wine was made in the summer and aged over the winter.

 

[Ostomo517]

Anyway, regardless of the source of the amylase, amylase doubles it's rate of conversion of starch to sugar that is available to the yeast every 10 degrees C. Traditionally rice wine was made in the summer and aged over the winter.

Already knew that but thanks

 

[Leadgolem]

The bottom line is that you need amylase in your rice in at least trace amounts. And since it is a readily available commodity in the food industry, manufactured by companies that specialize in making enzymes I don't see why a little company making yeast balls and selling them for $1.99 a package and trying to make a profit would fool around with live mold when they don't need to.

And by the way I am not phobic about mold. I scrape it off of aging hot sauce mash and don't worry about it.

I wasn't implying that you were. I was merely pointing out that many consumers are. Therefore, a company that uses a mold, or mold spores, in it's processing is unlikely to advertise that fact unless required to by law. It would limit their pool of possible consumers.

Anyway, regardless of the source of the amylase, amylase doubles it's rate of conversion of starch to sugar that is available to the yeast every 10 degrees C. Traditionally rice wine was made in the summer and aged over the winter.

Interesting tradition. It might be worth doing once the weather is a little warmer here. I would be interested to note how the flavor of the wine would change with some age. Especially since almost all of us have been consuming the wine fairly quickly after harvesting.

I had forgotten this instance, but it may be relevant. I did have a batch where I was very impatient and mixed crushed yeast balls with the rice when it was still slightly hot. Call it 140f estimated. That batch did not saccharify enough to produce any useful amount of liquid. It also did not mold.

 

[Spraentart]

I'm having a hard time finding yeast balls. Anyone want to sell me some? I'd buy them online but shipping is insane!

 

[captainskinnybeard]

I wasn't implying that you were. I was merely pointing out that many consumers are. Therefore, a company that uses a mold, or mold spores, in it's processing is unlikely to advertise that fact unless required to by law. It would limit their pool of possible consumers.

Interesting tradition. It might be worth doing once the weather is a little warmer here. I would be interested to note how the flavor of the wine would change with some age. Especially since almost all of us have been consuming the wine fairly quickly after harvesting.

I had forgotten this instance, but it may be relevant. I did have a batch where I was very impatient and mixed crushed yeast balls with the rice when it was still slightly hot. Call it 140f estimated. That batch did not saccharify enough to produce any useful amount of liquid. It also did not mold.

140f could kill the yeast and mold spores. It shouldn't hurt the amylase enzyme.

Maybe the folks at Onto would share some insight. They are in Canada. I'll send them an e-mail and see what they say, if anything.

 

[Leadgolem]

140f could kill the yeast and mold spores. It shouldn't hurt the amylase enzyme.

Maybe the folks at Onto would share some insight. They are in Canada. I'll send them an e-mail and see what they say, if anything.

That's what I thought. Logically, it fits better with a biological process that has been disrupted by the cooking of some of the beasties involved.

It would be very interesting to know from a company that produces the product directly if theirs contains mold spores. Though, as was mentioned, it is possible multiple types of yeast balls are available to the various parties making the wine.

Hmm, an interesting experiment would be to treat the process more as one might a traditional beer. Cook the rice, then add it to a pot of water maintained at optimal temps for amylase activity. Add straight amylase and allow the starch conversion to take place. Then strain the remaining rice pieces out, cool, and pitch yeast.

In any event that kind of an experiment would provide an interesting comparison to more traditional rice wine production. That, and you could get solid gravity readings so you would actually know what the ABV was. I'll put it on the list, but it may be a long while before I try it.

 

[bottlebomber]

I'm having a hard time finding yeast balls. Anyone want to sell me some? I'd buy them online but shipping is insane!

Dude! I would have gladly threw some in the package I sent out

 

[Ostomo517]

X I lve not to far away Im sure it would be cheap to send some over. Let me know

 

[Spraentart]

Dude! I would have gladly threw some in the package I sent out

Doh!

X I lve not to far away Im sure it would be cheap to send some over. Let me know

I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[captainskinnybeard]

I sent the following email to the Onto Yeast ball manufacturer:

"I have been discussing rice wine making on a brewing forum. There are many of us who have made rice wine and many more who would like to make some.
We were wondering if the yeast balls contain the amylase enzyme or if they contain mold spores allowing mold to make the amylase enzyme in the brewing wine.
Can you clear this up for us?"

They promptly replied saying:

"Hello Bruce,
Thank you for your interest in Onto Yeast balls.
Unfortunately I cannot answer your question at this time, but I will make sure to bring up the question to the scientist once he is available."

 

[Leadgolem]

I sent the following email to the Onto Yeast ball manufacturer:

"I have been discussing rice wine making on a brewing forum. There are many of us who have made rice wine and many more who would like to make some.
We were wondering if the yeast balls contain the amylase enzyme or if they contain mold spores allowing mold to make the amylase enzyme in the brewing wine.
Can you clear this up for us?"

They promptly replied saying:

"Hello Bruce,
Thank you for your interest in Onto Yeast balls.
Unfortunately I cannot answer your question at this time, but I will make sure to bring up the question to the scientist once he is available."

A prompt response like that is a good sign. Hopefully they follow up with you soon. Please do let us know if you hear anything more from them.

 

[captainskinnybeard]

The thing that got me started on this was reading about "failed batches" on this thread. My uncontrollable urge to understand why things fail got me thinking...

 

[sonofgrok]

I get a large amount of the exact same white mold growth in mine every time. I am willing to bet my balls contain spores. The ingredients on mine are also "Rice flour". I think they would need to put "Rice Flour, Yeast powder, Amylase powder" otherwise although enforcement of ingredient listings is dubious at best.

 

[lakeslad]

hi all Ive made loads of this now, even started making it for friends as they buy the ingredients, Ive had mold,spores, clear liquid, cloudy liquid and at the end of the day it all tastes OK, Ive drank loads at 3 weeks old most Ive gone is 4 weeks but never any problems it really is straight forward, for all our uk followers here is where i buy my yeast balls,
http://shop.waiyeehong.com/index.ph...iption=0&keyword=Dried+Yeast+Cake+(Wine+Cake)

 

[sonofgrok]

Is anyone else convinced that mods hate rice wine? I think they only like apfelwein.

I am happy to report though that we are on track to overtake skeeter pee. Make more rice wine! I just harvested 2 liters of the deliciousness myself.

 

[Ostomo517]

Is anyone else convinced that mods hate rice wine? I think they only like apfelwein.

I am happy to report though that we are on track to overtake skeeter pee. Make more rice wine! I just harvested 2 liters of the deliciousness myself.

Lol I think you right. How is this not a sticky yet??? But If we are counting all together Ive done about 2.5 gallons

 

[TBBrewer]

I brought my first batch of rice wine to a beer bottle share event and it was truly a hit. It almost lasted an hour. The first batch was with the Vietnamese tiny yeast cakes. I am about to harvest batch 2 & 3 tonight and will post pics. These batches are with Chinese yeast & also one with red rice yeast.

 

[JuanMoore]

Is anyone else convinced that mods hate rice wine? I think they only like apfelwein.

I am happy to report though that we are on track to overtake skeeter pee. Make more rice wine! I just harvested 2 liters of the deliciousness myself.

Nice!

My first batch has been ready to harvest since last Sat, and my second one will be ready this coming Fri. Just need to find a few min of free time to bottle them up.

 

[Accidic]

Hey now... There is absolutely nothing wrong with Skeeter Pee. That's some good @#$% too.

 

[Accidic]

Sidenote, apparently Android ate my reply to CaptainSkinny but some of us have tried the amylase route without great success. Also, I only get mold/spores when it's really warm and I see moisture ringing the jar. That said, while it would be interesting to see what Onto states, I doubt very seriously all producers are alike. Sake is made with the aid of mold and although it's much more of a PITA to make, the general idea still targets a fermented rice sugars beverage result. Heck, my wife even claims they smell similar to identical to her. Having a proper mold certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. Besides, if memory serves, there was someone on this thread a bit earlier offering the small starter packages that included the mold in the ingredients as just one example.

 

[Accidic]

Oh and Grok, this thread has already well surpassed SP in posts in a much shorter time window. It's rather unlikely it won't get the ~7k or so views to pass it there as well in the near future.

 

[browder]

Started my first batch 2 weeks ago--did a double batch in a gallon jug there's a good couple inches of liquid in the bottom so far--no mold yet-liquid is clear

 

[CooperBrew]

Fascinating thread! I've read an awful lot of it over the past few days. Thanks to all that have contributed

I found an Asian market close to work so I bought some Sushi Rice and yeast balls last evening after work. I bought a 1 gal glass jar and cheseecloth last night as well. I'll be making my first batch this weekend.

 

[jrk4295]

OK good to know. Can you compare that to what I have up on eBay and let me know? I want to make sure I'm giving people a fair deal.

Pretty sure I ordered some yeast balls from you, if youre the one with the ebay listing...haha..small world..Hopefully, if they get in today, I will start on my first batch!

 

[Accidic]

@Cooper, I really don't like cheesecloth as it has a tendency to squish macerated rice through it even with 4 or 5 layers. My last batch I went with a nylon material I found at the local sewing place. Next time though I think I'm going to get a paint strainer, dump the rice in it, and then wrap the super fine hole'd nylon around it if it proves necessary. Perhaps other people's mileage has varied a bit but it frustrated me greatly.

 

[CooperBrew]

Thanks for the heads up. I have a hardware store close by, I'll pick up some of those paint strainer bags when it comes time to strain it.

 

[Accidic]

In the interest of disclosure, I haven't tried it yet and won't for another week or so. But given how the previous batch worked out with the nylon it just seems like it'd be a bit easier. Probably didn't help that I had the nylon 4 thick. Talk about filtration though. It'd have laughed at even hop pellets.

 

[captainskinnybeard]

aspergillus oryzae strain of mold

"Incubation temperature impacts the kind of enzymes koji produces. The mold tends to produce mostly protease at temperatures between 85ºF (29.4ºC) and 92ºF (33.3ºC). That's useful for producing koji destined for making miso or shoyu, but not for sake. Temperatures between 93ºF (33.8ºC) and 100ºF (37.7ºC) seem to trigger alpha amylase production, so a sake brewer's target temperature during koji incubation is usually 96ºF (35.5ºC). "

 

[Ostomo517]

Thanks for the heads up. I have a hardware store close by, I'll pick up some of those paint strainer bags when it comes time to strain it.

Paint strainer bags for me, they work great

 

[JFK]

Here are my first batch babies at roughly 15 percent abv.
Raspberry and cherry

 

[sonofgrok]

Here are my first batch babies at roughly 15 percent abv.
Raspberry and cherry

Awesome labels!

 

[JFK]

Thanks sonofgrok. They were really easy to make. I printed out what I wanted on the paper, then I soaked the paper in coffee for five minutes, drained the liquid off, baked them in the oven for seven minutes, took em out and took a lighter to them like a pyro. To attach them to the bottles I just wiped milk on the back of the labels with a wash cloth and stuck em on like a sticker. Thanks to my friend Revvy for the milk label method.