cocoa: dutch processed vs. unsweetened cocoa

[JeffD1]

So I bought Ghirardelli "natural unsweetened cocoa powder" to put into the secondary. (I know now that it should have been put in the primary...or i should be using cocao nibs), but I also just learned that I should be using dutch processed cocoa powder because dutch processing removes the fat.

If I wanted to use cocao nibs, it looks like I would want to use 6-8 oz, which would mean 2 packages from my lhbs for $10. I also can't seem to find dutch processed cocoa powder. So my question is what would happen if I just went with what i have and used non alkali processed cocoa. Has anyone used this with success? I care a lot about taste, not as much about head and appearance. I'm not sure I want to spend an additional $10 to make sure the head is good, although I definitely want some head.

Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I have made several batches of chocolate stout porter, never use cocoa or cocoa nibs. I have had great success with chocolate malt. Its one of my favorite malts.

 

[Colorowdy]

Check your health foød store for cocoa nibs.

 

[JeffD1]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check out whole foods, but I'd be surprised if I actually found a deal there.

 

[LouHale80]

dutching does not remove the fat, or at least my dutched process is full fat

 

[kaboom133]

From Jack Keller's site http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/wineblognew.asp#020512B about 7/8 of the way down under Feb.5 2012:

"If you have shopped for cocoa powder in any sizeable supermarket, you probably know there are choices. But if your choices are between Baker's, Hershey's and Nestle's, you might consider looking for a larger supermarket. Even then, your choices may be limited but could open up a couple more brands. Why is this important? Because all cocoa powder is not the same, and if you are making a base-chocolate wine, you want the right kind.

At the most basic level, there are essentially two kinds of cocoa -- natural and "Dutched." Dutch-process cocoa powder is made from cocoa (actually, cacao) beans that have been washed with a alkaline solution to neutralize their acidity. Natural cocoa powder is made from cocoa beans that are simply roasted, pressed to extract at least half the cocoa butter and then pulverized into a fine powder.

Natural cocoa powder and chocolate contain more antioxidants because the "Dutching" process removes some; "heavy Dutching" removes as much as 90%. However, experts tell us that cocoa is so rich in antioxidants that removing 90% still leaves it in the "super-antioxidant" class of foods.

Natural cocoa powder has a richer, more acrid aroma, but accordingly has a more acidic and bitter taste. Contrary to intuition, natural cocoa powder is lighter in color and more difficult to dissolve in water. Dutch-processed cocoa has less acidity, a smoother flavor and darker, redder color, and it is also more soluble, which is really important when making wine."

This helped clear the dutched/natural thing up for me some. I know it's a wine site, but the basic idea is the same.

 

[petey_c]

JeffD1, I've made two batches of double chocolate stout from AHS and added 5 and 8 ounces of Baker's unsweetened chocolate. The first time I didn't think it had enough chocolate taste, so I upped the ante. I back sweetened with 1 lb. of lactose. No problems with head formation or retention.

 

[FATC1TY]

I've always used dutch processed cocoa powder. I have some really good organic stuff my LHBS guy gets, thats better than anything I've used.

I used it in the boil, pretty much right around 5 minutes. A boil helps dissolve it and bring out more flavor as well.

Everyone has their own opinion on when and how much and what to add. Play around with what you like honestly.

I use nibs alot, because I like the dark bitter chocolate flavor they contribute. If I want milk chocolate flavors, I'll use cocoa powder in the boil, and use a normal Chocolate Malt, and a PALE Chocolate malt together, which gives it a creamier chocolate note.

 

[FATC1TY]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check out whole foods, but I'd be surprised if I actually found a deal there.

I bought a good bit of cocoa nibs from WF for like.. 5 or 6 bucks.. I think it was like 8 ounces if I'm not mistaken.

 

[JeffD1]

Thank you so much for the replies, they are all very helpful! So if I'm understanding this right, the problem with using non dutch possessed is it is less soluble so I would have to use more and it is more bitter.

 

[JeffD1]

JeffD1, I've made two batches of double chocolate stout from AHS and added 5 and 8 ounces of Baker's unsweetened chocolate. The first time I didn't think it had enough chocolate taste, so I upped the ante. I back sweetened with 1 lb. of lactose. No problems with head formation or retention.

Petey c, How did the batch with 8 ounces come out? How strong was the chocolate note? Thanks!

 

[Loneleigh]

So I guess 2 oz to a 5 gallon batch wont do much good eh?

 

[FATC1TY]

So I guess 2 oz to a 5 gallon batch wont do much good eh?

It'll leave a slight chocolate nose and finish.

I'd say that 5 ounces is a good blend to not overpower anything and to know there's chocolate in there.

Others might think more or less...

 

[petey_c]

JeffD1/Loneleigh, The chocolate was pretty strong, but not overpowering.

 

[BigFloyd]

We've just started drinking a chocolate stout in the last week that I'd brewed in mid-February. With a few months of bottle aging, it turned out delicious with just the right touch of chocolate that I was looking for.

I take the simple route. 8 ounces of Hershey's unsweetened cocoa powder combined dry in a mixing bowl with 1lb lactose, added warm water to that to get a pourable slurry. Stirred it into the kettle at 10 min. Works for me.

 

[sweetcell]

one pounds of lactose seems like a lot... i suspect that would be too sweet for my tastes, but then again i generally don't like sweet beers.

 

[BigFloyd]

one pounds of lactose seems like a lot... i suspect that would be too sweet for my tastes, but then again i generally don't like sweet beers.

You'd be surprised. It's balanced, but not sweet. The 2:1 ratio of lactose to cocoa powder helps to offset the bitterness of the unsweetened cocoa powder (which is quite bitter).