Chimay Grande Réserve (Blue)

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Just wanted to say that I love this beer, and your recipe (and results) seem to be the best clone I've seen online.

I don't have the fermenter space right now, bu there will come a day that I brew this beer.

Thanks for the extensive info!
 
homebrewdad said:
Just wanted to say that I love this beer, and your recipe (and results) seem to be the best clone I've seen online.

I don't have the fermenter space right now, bu there will come a day that I brew this beer.

Thanks for the extensive info!
Click to expand...

Much appreciated.
 
I have your 001 version in primary right now and im super excited... a bit too excited as it were. So i had harvested some yeast from a Chimay Blue bottle and made a big starter and used that. After krausen started i started to freak out cause i was uncertain whether or not they used a bottling strain and i didnt want to waste such a delicious brew. So i ended up pitching some WLP500 i had in the fridge on top of it, a really dumb move looking back on it. But its just doing its thing.

Can you guys put my mind at ease here? Ive read that harvested Chimay yeast should be wlp500 but ive read a couple things that had me doubting it. Did i possibly jack up my dubbel by overpitching?

Thanks!
 
Chromebrew said:
I have your 001 version in primary right now and im super excited... a bit too excited as it were. So i had harvested some yeast from a Chimay Blue bottle and made a big starter and used that. After krausen started i started to freak out cause i was uncertain whether or not they used a bottling strain and i didnt want to waste such a delicious brew. So i ended up pitching some WLP500 i had in the fridge on top of it, a really dumb move looking back on it. But its just doing its thing.

Can you guys put my mind at ease here? Ive read that harvested Chimay yeast should be wlp500 but ive read a couple things that had me doubting it. Did i possibly jack up my dubbel by overpitching?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

As recently as January this year the strain has been bottle cultured and verified as a slightly spicier mutation of the Chimay ferm yeast, (by CSI). Denny Conn has mentioned in posts that he prefers the bottle cultured one. You're fine. Yeast over continents and time mutates.

When you hit within 1 gravity point you can cold crash it and bring the ferm to a 'near' halt. This will force flocc the yeast...then move it to secondary. Once in secondary the crash should be in the mid 30's (35-36F) and let the remainder of the suspended yeast flocc. This will control your gravity, (and also preserve your starting ester profile).
 
For those that are brewing this, don't freak out about the color like I did, CSI did alleviate much of those worries yet the persisted in the back of my mind :cross:. I kept thinking I maybe didn't boil enough to contribute to the light color, when I transferred to carboy and its on its way to being way darker now. Its smell and taste is really starting to come together. I was fairly on point with the temperature control for this batch, with a cold snap dropping the end of primary one night to 64 again. Initial sample had a strong banana smell despite being fermented quite cool, yet that seems to be subduing dramatically as it continues to ferment. It is now a faint ripe banana aroma, that I needed to point out for others to notice.

Thanks again for all the help CSI.

Ryan
 
Chromebrew said:
Thanks for providing such great info! I will be looking for more of your posts :)
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on using 1/2 45 and 1/2 90 or 3/4 45 and 1/4 90 to try and remain close in srm with benefits of 90 flavors?
 
hbr2547 said:
Any thoughts on using 1/2 45 and 1/2 90 or 3/4 45 and 1/4 90 to try and remain close in srm with benefits of 90 flavors?
Click to expand...

The sky is the limit on variations to the theme for this ale. I can say that the 002 trial using 1lb of D-90 is quite possibly the best Belgian ale I have ever tasted import or otherwise. That being said, the 002 trial is not the same ale as the Chimay Grande Reserve. The flavor profiles are very different using D-90. Keeping on track with a true CGR clone I would only use D-45 and only 1 lb / 5 gal. and ferment low. WLP500 will produce some of the most amazing esters at 62-64. No need to use spices in this ale when the yeast is producing anise-like esters on its own :)

Once the yeast floccs and the first glass is poured you will notice the SRM is extremely close to the import...and you may even say you have brewed a better ale...

About fermentation aromas...you will get a very fruity nose on the CO2 discharge from the vapor lock even at very low temps. A couple of months into bottle conditioning this will all but disappear leaving an understated spice, hops, bread, and slight candi sugar finish much like the original.
 
chutracheese said:
Is the only difference between v1and v2 using d90 instead of d45?
Click to expand...

Just brewed the trial 002...crash chilling as we speak. Looking fwd to this one!!!
 
sid_marx said:
The observation is in response to other posters requesting an ABT 12 clone; the St Bernardus yeast isn't available commercially as far as I know and BLAM says the brewery employs a second yeast for bottle conditioning. If you don't have the yeast I don't think you can rally really produce the beer.

BTW St Bernardus ABT 12 is my # 1, I like it more than any of Trappists.. yes sacrilege I know.
Click to expand...

[OT]
Sid, I meant to respond to you on the SB12 yeast strains but we had not cultured or tested the strains in the SB12 until now. In this particular case BLAM is correct on the re-fermentation yeast being a secondary strain. Alternatively we'll try using US commercial Westmalle and also bottle conditioned yeast from a Westy 12. We have some really smart guys working on the St. Bernardus Abt12 trial and we expect to get the recipe close using Westmalle.
 
chutracheese said:
Is the only difference between v1and v2 using d90 instead of d45?
Click to expand...

Yes, 001 was lighter than the 002 clone. As it turns out 001 was very close but light on SRM, but the ester profile, and overall flavor were unmistakably good. The 002 trial (w/ D-90) turned out a closer match on SRM.
 
A quick picture of my 002 attempt...overshot my gravity and ended up hitting 80 percent efficiency and 1.09.



image-2826665249.jpg
 
Took another sample today, right around 1.011. Sitting at 58 degrees hoping it will finish out. I am still noticing a bit of banana, I know I did not let the fermentation temperature above 68, which it wasn't even there for long. Did you experience this flavor and aroma early on CSI? Color is very close to where it should be now, still needs to clear but its obvious itll darken the few more shades it needs.


Ryan
 
CSI said:
Sid, I meant to respond to you on the SB12 yeast strains but we had not cultured or tested the strains in the SB12 until now. In this particular case BLAM is correct on the re-fermentation yeast being a secondary strain. Alternatively we'll try using US commercial Westmalle and also bottle conditioned yeast from a Westy 12. We have some really smart guys working on the St. Bernardus Abt12 trial and we expect to get the recipe right on.
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding, I've already scoped the recently published draft ABT 12 recipe on your website and have the ingredients ready to go. I've also brewed a couple of small test batches and a 20l quad using bottle cultured pater 6 (from a 33cl bottle). I bottled the full size batch a couple of weeks ago. For my money I think the bottled cultured pater 6 produces beer that is closer to St Bernardus than 3787 using a similar base recipe. But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...
 
Not a Chimay but a westy blonde recipe from csi - great brew....thanks for sharing recipe.


image-3179312707.jpg
 
sid_marx said:
Thanks for responding, I've already scoped the recently published draft ABT 12 recipe on your website and have the ingredients ready to go. I've also brewed a couple of small test batches and a 20l quad using bottle cultured pater 6 (from a 33cl bottle). I bottled the full size batch a couple of weeks ago. For my money I think the bottled cultured pater 6 produces beer that is closer to St Bernardus than 3787 using a similar base recipe. But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...
Click to expand...

Thanks sid! I had not considered that yeast. We will certainly give it a try also. Much appreciated.

sid_marx said:
But for me the truth will be in tasting the finished product...
Click to expand...

Yes, concur :)
 
Oophaga said:
Took another sample today, right around 1.011. Sitting at 58 degrees hoping it will finish out. I am still noticing a bit of banana, I know I did not let the fermentation temperature above 68, which it wasn't even there for long. Did you experience this flavor and aroma early on CSI? Color is very close to where it should be now, still needs to clear but its obvious itll darken the few more shades it needs.


Ryan
Click to expand...


So far in the two trials I detected a spicy grape aroma followed by multi-fruit ester as it rose to 68F. The fruit esters have already aged into subtle hints that balance very nicely with the hops and bready malt. No banana aromas that I could discern.
 
Well I bottled to corked Belgian's yesterday, carbed to 3 volumes. Tasted the left over from the bottling bucket and wow. Already the difference from a week ago is astonishing. So balanced, slight alcohol, but then again its 9% so two weeks from now I will sample again. Nice belgian ester and spice, with the bready malt backbone. Slight fruit, but not too much, and the Banana is no longer noticeable. Bottled twelve capable Belgian 375ml to sample once a month to monitor progress. Hopefully I will have the the patience and strength to not kill this batch before a years time. I am very excited about this batch. I will be doing the D180 soon, plan on waiting til primary of an imperial stout is finished first. Partly to so I can track down enough belgian strength bottles.
 
Oophaga said:
Well I bottled to corked Belgian's yesterday, carbed to 3 volumes. Tasted the left over from the bottling bucket and wow. Already the difference from a week ago is astonishing. So balanced, slight alcohol, but then again its 9% so two weeks from now I will sample again. Nice belgian ester and spice, with the bready malt backbone. Slight fruit, but not too much, and the Banana is no longer noticeable. Bottled twelve capable Belgian 375ml to sample once a month to monitor progress. Hopefully I will have the the patience and strength to not kill this batch before a years time. I am very excited about this batch. I will be doing the D180 soon, plan on waiting til primary of an imperial stout is finished first. Partly to so I can track down enough belgian strength bottles.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you hit the numbers spot on. This trial turned out to be one of the best ales we have in house. Time to brew it as-is a few more times just to make sure we have enough for the year :)
 
I brewed this recipe last night. I did BIAB, I added a pound of caramunich and otherwise followed the recipe. I started with 8.5 gals of water and after boil was down to just 4.5. I usually start at about 7.5 gals but figured with 90 min boil and all that grain I should use a bit more. I guess I still undershot it. My concern is my OG was 1.096! I did then add my 2.25L starter so it totaled about 5 gals but think I'm going to have issues?

Also, when do folks add the syrup? 10 mins till flameout? That's what I did for this one.
Thanks
 
fatboy34 - did you add the entire 2.25l of starter or just the yeasty slurry? While the volume is small, I would have left the wort behind and only tossed the yeast. My $.02.
 
fatboy34 said:
I added the entire thing. I have never done a starter that big, is that bad practice?
Click to expand...

There is some concern that the "starter beer" (the liquid on top of the yeast) in your finished starter may not have a good flavor profile (no hops, fermentation geared towards yeast reproduction, not clean flavor profile, etc) and can have a negative effect on the flavor of the finished beer.

I generally will pitch 1L starters directly to the wort (starter beer and all), but if I have to make a 2L or larger starter, then I "cold crash" it in the fridge for a day or 2 to let the yeast settle to the bottom of the flask, pour out the starter beer, and use only the yeast slurry.

I have never noticed off flavors from starter beer, because it is generally made with the same grain bill/extract type as the recipe beer, but it is certainly a possibility to consider when making big starters.
 
Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.

Beersmith is also calculationg to high FG but I'm less worried about that.

I only have access to Weyermann grains, but I think I have selected pretty accurate replacements.


Recipe: Chimay grande reserve TYPE: Partial Mash
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 12.3 SRM SRM RANGE: 12.0-22.0 SRM
IBU: 23.7 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 20.0-35.0 IBUs
OG: 1.077 SG OG RANGE: 1.075-1.110 SG
FG: 1.016 SG FG RANGE: 1.010-1.024 SG
BU:GU: 0.309 Calories: 733.3 kcal/l Est ABV: 8.0 %
EE%: 66.00 % Batch: 21.12 l Boil: 26.50 l BT: 90 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 7.71 kg Total Hops: 2.50 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.35 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 1 82.4 %
0.45 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.9 %
0.45 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.93 l of water at 70.7 C 64.5 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 12.11 l of water at 95.3 C 75.6 C 10 min

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 22.2 C/22.2 C
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 2.73 l water at 75.6 C

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.061 SG Est OG: 1.077 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
0.45 kg D-45 candi syrup (45.0 SRM) Extract 4 5.9 %
1.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 5.3 IBUs


---FERM PROCESS-----------------------------
Primary Start: 10.05.2013 - 7.00 Days at 17.8 C
Secondary Start: 17.05.2013 - 7.00 Days at 10.0 C
Style Carb Range: 2.30-2.90 Vols
Bottling Date: 31.05.2013 with 2.3 Volumes CO2:
---NOTES------------------------------------
 
gugguson said:
Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.

Beersmith is also calculationg to high FG but I'm less worried about that.

I only have access to Weyermann grains, but I think I have selected pretty accurate replacements.
Click to expand...

Weyermann's should work nicely. The W. Pale is slightly more bready than Castle or Dingeman's (IMHO), and will probably balance the WLP500 esters.

The jury is still out on the exact color as reported, (via BLAM correction), but 1 lb of D-45 appears to have matched initially but then aged out lighter. Trial 002 (w/D-90) turns out to have been darker initially but aged out about the same as the CGR. If you are brewing the 002 trial using D-90 lower the primary ferm temp to 63-64 to create the balance of fruit/spice that this ale needs.
 
Give this recipe the time it needs in the bottles. It is becoming flat out delicious over time. Initially the fruit esters overpowered the subtle spice and bready notes, not anymore. In addition to the alcohol bite. It is completely gone. Its still very young, I bottled in the beginning of march. I still feel its slightly lighter than chimay but very delicious either way. Maybe because beersmith calculates for trub loss and such your actually brewing a larger batch size.

Definitely rebrew worthy without a doubt. I have so many ideas with these delicious csi products.
 
gugguson said:
Does anybody have a Beersmith export of this recipe? I'm having problem setting it up in Beersmith because the result is a much lower SRM beer, Beersmith gives 12 SRM while the recipe here 20.3.
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Click to expand...

I was getting similar results using BeerSmith, so I'm using the D90 - with the great reviews flavor wise and the 'more' appropriate color via BeerSmith I figure I can't go wrong...

One thing - I'm considering holding the D90 until Day 3 of primary fermentation and adding half Day 3 and the other half Day 5... Seems I've read good things on adding sugar through out fermentation to keep the yeast happy, thoughts?
 
The color needs to be adjusted if your using beersmith, candi syrup is packaged with lovibond, and it needs to be srm... There's an equation to convert it. I just don't have it in front of me
 
The 90 L* means lovibond which is a different scale, From CSI:

Thanks for the good word. Lovibond is comparative to SRM in the following formula:

deg Lovibond = (SRM + 0.6) / 1.35

For instance, L 45 would equate to about 59.9 SRM.

Cheers,
 
Sleepyemt said:
The 90 L* means lovibond which is a different scale, From CSI:

Thanks for the good word. Lovibond is comparative to SRM in the following formula:

deg Lovibond = (SRM + 0.6) / 1.35

For instance, L 45 would equate to about 59.9 SRM.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

Actually should be 60.15... Sorry was from a copied pm....
 
Did you follow the link I included? On their website it states
"Contents: Beet sugar, water.
Specifications: SRM - 90, PPG - 1.032
Retail Availability: 1lb pouches.
Commercial Quantities: Yes, contact us here"

It never mentions Lovibond
 
Yeah, I'm just letting you know my previous conversation with them. Which is why numbers aren't matching.... It shows lovibond right on the bag. 45L, 90L, 180L....

Maybe CSI will clear this up for us?
 

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