Why isn't my brew bitter?

[Helper]

Hello everyone,

I've been brewing for well over a year now and I have over 20 all grain brews under my belt and I recently brewed an IPA that I though would be pushing the limits. I enjoy a good hop bitterness so I wanted something that would punch me in the face with bitterness. To be frank, I wanted to create a brew that made me say, "This is too bitter: there is such a thing as too many hops/ibu's." I wanetes to learn something from this brew in terms of what I really liked/desired in terms of bitterness. After a recent online hop haul I created this IPA.

Here's my recipe:
(GRAIN)
10 lb 2 row rahr
2 lb Munich 10L
1 lb Crystal 60

Estimated gravity of 1.063 (@ 70% calculated efficiency but I find I usually do a little better) on this particular brew day I got a post boil gravity @59 deg F of 1.070.

(HOP SCHEDULE)
60 min 0.500 oz Apollo 18.0% AA
45 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
33 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
25 min 1.000 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
15 min 1.000 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
10 min 1.000 oz zythos 10.90% AA
5 min 0.500 oz Cascade ~6.00% AA
1 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA

After 1 week (7 days) of vigorous fermentation with a 2000ml starter of Wyeast 1335 English ale II I dry hopped. (Fermentation was actually done in about 4 days but I let it go an extra three before racking into a secondary for dry hopping) (I racked into secondary so I could use some of the yeast cake for a version of an Ed Wort's Pale Ale!)

(DRY HOP) 7th day of fermentation
0.500 oz Apollo
1.00 oz Zythos
1.00 oz Cascade

9th day of fermentation
0.500 oz Centennial (for S's and G's_

I let the dry hops go for about 2 weeks (13.5 to 14 days) until they all dropped out. ( the secondary was a 6 gal. better bottle with a better bottle stopper and an airlock)

I transferred the brew into my keg (final gravity of 1.015) a day or two ago and let it go on 30 psi @ 34 deg F for 3 days ( not perfectly carbonated but i can work with it).

I had not tasted this brew (not even the wort!!!) until today because I thought this would be epically delicious and bitter. I tried it today (about 4 weeks+ after the brew day)..... It is epically delicious....there is little to no bitterness. My brewing software dialed this in to about 116 IBU's with a 1.84 IBU/GP ratio.....

The ed wort's haus pale ale variant I did has more bitterness than this brew (which had 1.0 oz cascade @ 60min, 0.500 oz tradition (7.0% AA) @ 30 min, 0.250 oz tradition @ 15min, and 0.250 oz tradition @ 5 min.)

What I'm wondering is, is: WHERE IS MY BITTERNESS!?!?!?!?!

Did I mask it with excessive maltyness and fruity flavored late addition/dry hops or or what!? I was babysitting my wort throughout the duration of the boil and I had a normal (or what I should call my usual amount) of wort boil activity which I would consider moderate ( continuous rolling boil of the wort which is not to vigorous to jump out of the kettle but vigorous enough to role the wort consistently)

What's you input? I think for some reason I added much unfermentable sugar through the grain bill and added too much aromatic hops too late in the boil/dry hop but I have bot clue...

Don't get me wrong... this brew is delectable. Its is mildly sweet (like a slight green tea sweetness) with an effervescent aroma an flavor or a melon-grapefruit-citrus hop aroma, but like I said less noticeable bitterness than my ed wort variant (and less than the original version of the ed wort's haus pale ale I did a month ago). If I had to pin point a flavor I would say it is similar to something like what I would presume this guy's 1lb zythos pale ale is. (The brewer used 1lb of zythos but only used them for late additions)



^^^ this individual is not the brewer, but a reviewer of the brewer's 1lb zythos pale ale.

Let me know what you think went wrong/ what is masking the bitterness .

Also How can I up my bitterness!?!?!? I was thinking, different yeast, less dry hopping, less unfermentable, grains, and/or more early additions of more of the hops previously stated with less and lower late additions of these hops.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

Sincerely,
Helper

 

[neosapien]

I really think it has to do with the fact that you're only using a total of 1oz for bittering additions, and a ton for the flavor (which by your own descriptions sounds quite amazing). try it again as is but stick 3 oz of apollo at 60. i bet you get some bitterness that way. this recipe does look delicious though.

 

[chumpsteak]

mash temp? FG? The higher the alcohol the more the sugars will cover up the bitterness. The more crystal malts and the higher the FG, the more the sugars will cover up the bitterness.

Shoot for less than 5% crystal and try to get FG down to 1.010. That will make the bitterness come out. Remember though, the higher the alcohol the lower the bitterness. That's been my experience anyway.

 

[Schumed]

It's called balance between malty and bitterness...that's what I prefer but yeah if you want more bitterness add more hops at the beginning

 

[ANGELofDEBT]

What Brewing software are you using?
My software only gives your first bittering additions at 13 IBUs. Would have a hard time seeing how the rest of your hop additions make up another 100 as the later in the boil you add the less IBU they contribute

 

[BPal75]

It could also be because you were over your target gravity by 7 points (1.07 vs 1.063). If you didn't increase the amount of bittering hops from your initial recipe that will through your BU/GU ratio off from target and impact your expected bitterness.

I also agree with other posters that a pound of crystal 60 is a lot for my taste in an IPA. I avoid crystal all together in IPAs and get my malt complexity from other specialty/ base malts like Vienna, biscuit, marris otter, melanoidin, etc. If you must use crystal I'd use c40 vs c60 and keep it to around 1/2 lb or less in a 5 gallon batch. If you really want bitterness to shine through, you should target a drier beer around 1.010. You ended up at 1.015 which for me is on the higher side for an IPA and its likely because of your 1lb of crystal.

 

[BPal75]

Also, it just occurred to me that I read recently in Gordon Strong's book that a quantitative way to measure what I was discussing is to give consideration to a recipe's BU/FG ratio as well as the BU/GU ratio. If you want a beer with more or less perceived bitterness, this ratio can help, since the theory is that two beers with the same BU/GU ratio will have different perceived bitternesses if one has a higher BU/FG ratio then the other. Something to keep in mind and a big reason I like to keep my IPAs low on the FG side if I want a really bitter tasting IPA.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Actually it looks like it aught to be plenty bitter. I'd try 2 things next time: replace some of the malt with sugar - say 8oz cane or corn sugar - which will lower the fg and dry out the beer, and add gypsum.

 

[unionrdr]

I'd say the 2lbs of munich & 1lb of crystal kept it a little on the sweet side. Plus I also question programs like BS2 that I have when it comes to IBU's. i think they run IBU's higher than they really turn out. Plus 45 & 30 minute additions aren't the best for sheer bittering. 60 minutes for that. I don't do mid boil additions,as I think they're a waste of time & hops.

 

[JPFuller]

I don't know what your water chemistry is like, but you could consider upping your sulphate level some to make the hops stand out. A lot of water calculators recommend levels of 300 ppm for APA's and the like.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I totally skip crystal in my IPAs, instead I rely on either a flavorful base malt (MO or Pearl usually) or 2 row + some Munich. Definitely add some gypsum, and mash low, it wouldn't hurt to bring the mash PH close to 5 too just to increase attenuation. Also adding some sugar (I use the cheapest cane sugar I can get) will also help dry out the beer. Also depending on fermentation temp you may have some fruity esters masking the bitterness.

 

[processhead]

I don't want to overstate the obvious, but you DO need a hard rolling boil for proper hop utilization.

A low simmering boil may not get it done.

It appears to me you have enough hop additions for at least a moderately hopped beer.

If you are doing that already, disregard this...

 

[DPBISME]

(HOP SCHEDULE)
60 min 0.500 oz Apollo 18.0% AA
45 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
33 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
25 min 1.000 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
15 min 1.000 oz Zythos 10.90% AA
10 min 1.000 oz zythos 10.90% AA
5 min 0.500 oz Cascade ~6.00% AA
1 min 0.500 oz Zythos 10.90% AA

So if these are the hops you added during the bil it should have been around 129 IBUs (according to the On-line Tastybrew calculator).

So my guess is you had old hops or they were mis-marked...

Hops lose bitternes pretty quickly even when properly stored.

I just had double up hops in a recipe Cascade because I was using year old (PLUS) hops... (I used eight (8) oz of Cascade in a ULTRA-LOW Gravity Beer... ABV around 3%)

As I brewed it I wondered if I was going to be able to drink it (I am not a HOP-HEAD).

It is hoppy but not bitter at all.

DPB

 

[rklinck]

So if these are the hops you added during the bil it should have been around 129 IBUs (according to the On-line Tastybrew calculator).

So my guess is you had old hops or they were mis-marked...

Hops lose bitternes pretty quickly even when properly stored.

I just had double up hops in a recipe Cascade because I was using year old (PLUS) hops... (I used eight (8) oz of Cascade in a ULTRA-LOW Gravity Beer... ABV around 3%)

As I brewed it I wondered if I was going to be able to drink it (I am not a HOP-HEAD).

It is hoppy but not bitter at all.

DPB

Well this is weird. When I put these into Beersmith, I get 54.5 IBU (once I adjust the efficiency to end up with 1.070 OG).

EDIT: To get sufficient bitterness even to be within the IPA style, I add at least 2 ounces of 10%+ hops at 60 minutes.

 

[DPBISME]

Well this is weird. When I put these into Beersmith, I get 54.5 IBU (once I adjust the efficiency to end up with 1.070 OG).

EDIT: To get sufficient bitterness even to be within the IPA style, I add at least 2 ounces of 10%+ hops at 60 minutes.

I could not do that until I got home... and 129 sounded high to me anyway...

As you said there should be plenty of bitterness...

He has got something else going on....

Another poster said "The Boil" I would add that also to my (gee it can't be the reason list)...

I think the guys talking about water profiles might be streacching but My Water here in "DC"... seems to make good beer regardless...

Happy Brewing...

 

[Helper]

Thanks for everyone's help! I use BrewTarget, the FG was 1.013, and I mashed at 151 def F but over the hr mash it dropped to 149 deg F. I think next time I will bump the hop schedule backwards and add more late addition hops versus flavor and aroma. Also I'll cut the munich down/ add 0.5lb of C40. All you're help has been great, if I try this brew again I'll let everyone know how it turns out and what I did differently.

 

[unionrdr]

Late addition hops are for flavor & aroma. Early additions,like at 60 minutes are for bittering.

 

[Helper]

Late addition hops are for flavor & aroma. Erly additions,like at 60 minutes are for bittering.

Yeah that's what I 'meant'. I call late additions (near 60 min) because I look at it from the end of the boil.

 

[DPBISME]

Yeah that's what I 'meant'. I call late additions (near 60 min) because I look at it from the end of the boil.

Ahh... Oh wait... if you have been putting hops in backwards? that would explane it!

I don't think you did but just to confirm... when it says add at 60 minutes it means 60 minutes of boil time....

I mean the convention we start at the boil and the time goes down...

Did you figure out your issue?

 

[Helper]

We are on the same page about when we put hops in for bittering. 60 minutes means 60 minutes of boil. And yes I believe I added way too much munich/crystal and could have added more of the hop bill towards the bittering side of the additions. Thanks.

 

[thood6]

What Brewing software are you using?
My software only gives your first bittering additions at 13 IBUs. Would have a hard time seeing how the rest of your hop additions make up another 100 as the later in the boil you add the less IBU they contribute

Idk if that's right. At 18 alpha acid even a half ounce should give him north of 30 ibus.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,way more. I had to cut hop additions on my Moari IPA in BS2 to get the IBU's down in line with American IPA'S. bittering down to .3oz,3 flavor hop additions down to 1.2oz each for 57.4IBU's.

 

[Helper]

***UPDATE*** I think I called this one too early! This brew has been in the keg for a couple of weeks now and for some reason the bitterness has actually developed significantly!!! Perhaps the brew wasn't done fermenting, aging added to the bitterness (or reduced the hop nose which in turn made the apparent bitterness more prevalent). Or the the carbonation added to the prevalence of the bitterness. Thanks everyone for the advice though. I mean the bitterness isn't what I expected but it has by far the most bitter (yet balanced) brew I've ever had. If anyone was thinking about brewing this but was worried about how I played the lack of bitterness to be, don't worry. Just give it time and let it carb up! Cheers everyone!

 

[unionrdr]

It's the carbonation & conditioning making it more noticeable. Beers need conditioning time as well as mear carbonation to bring out flavors & aromas. Bittering is no ecception to this rule. Enjoy!