OG, ABV, and such

[ARaces23]

I'm tucking into my 7th brew day Saturday and I am desperate to find how to heighten my OG, in turn having a higher ABV.
My previous brews have all missed OG, thus having a lower ABV and being out of balance in general.
I'm hopefully brewing an IIPA, so a low number would be bad. How do I increase sugars, fermentables without going too far off recipe?
Thanks!
Chris

 

[25518]

Man. I'd love to know too.

 

[speedyG]

I know Austin homebrew sells a 1% ABV boost when you buy their kits. Find out what is in the boost Andy buy that separately.

 

[ratbastrd05]

Are you doing extract or all-grain? Either way, you could just add a lbs or two of dry extract. Since it's a IIPA, adding some hops to make sure it balances isn't all that risky. Just plug it in a program to see if you have enough IBUs.

Alternatively, you could add a lbs or two of honey, which I think is nearly 100% fermentable and if you add it around 30 in the boil shouldn't leave much residual taste. Or, do it like a Belgian brew and just add some plain table sugar to get the high ABV you're looking for, should ferment out nearly 100% too.

 

[chickypad]

As was mentioned it's pretty simple, to increase your OG and ABV you need to add fermentables - grain, extract, sugar, etc. I guess my main question though would be why/how are you missing your OG? If you're extract brewing it's almost impossible to miss by much if your volumes and weights are correct. It would be much more common to have a false reading - i.e. mixing issue from topping off, didn't measure volumes accurately, etc. If all grain then I assume you are talking about an efficiency problem, so may be some things folks could help you trouble shoot there. I'd get those issues straightened out first and then work on altering recipes.

 

[unionrdr]

An Imperial IPA is higher gravity than a regular one to start with. They seem to be 7 or 8 percent to start with. That's pretty good already.

 

[ARaces23]

I'm doing all grain. LHBS thinks I'm mashing too high? Usually 162°. So, there is one efficiency issue possibly. Was using dry yeast, they had me switch to liquid.
For instance I've been hitting 5.8% instead of estimated 6.6%. FG was almost right on estimate, but OG was well short
I like the idea of honey, but that seems like it would impart some flavor or consistency. May go that route though in the end.
Any other thoughts? Anybody live close? Haha

 

[unionrdr]

Mash temp of 162F is def too high. Cut it 10 degrees to 152F,& you'll get higher efficiency,& thus higher OG.

 

[chickypad]

I'm doing all grain. LHBS thinks I'm mashing too high? Usually 162°. So, there is one efficiency issue possibly. Was using dry yeast, they had me switch to liquid.
For instance I've been hitting 5.8% instead of estimated 6.6%. FG was almost right on estimate, but OG was well short
I like the idea of honey, but that seems like it would impart some flavor or consistency. May go that route though in the end.
Any other thoughts? Anybody live close? Haha

Is that your strike temp or the actual mash temp? Even so, I think a mash temp of 162 would affect the final gravity more than OG (from Kai's experiements on braukaiser), so there may be other stuff going on.

If efficiency is the issue then you would up the grainbill, not add honey or other sugars as that would alter the character of the recipe and may not be appropriate for style. But we should be able to help with your efficiency if you spell out exactly the steps in your process. Give us a recipe and your exact readings. Also double check all the calibration on your thermometer, hydrometers. How are you measuring your volumes? Are you letting the sample cool before measuring OG? I find that the correction tables don't work well above about 85-90 degrees.

 

[LovesIPA]

If you're actually mashing at 162, then yes, it's too high. I mash my IPA's at 148 but I've had some tell me that's too low, others say it's right.

There is a simple way of correcting your OG using malt extract.

- Pre-boil, measure the gravity (be sure to correct for temperature, or even better, cool the sample in a water bath to get it down to 60*)
- Measure the volume of the pre-boil wort.
- From these two numbers, you can calculate the total GU (gravity units). This is the significant part of the gravity reading times the volume. So if you have 7.8 gallons of 1.039 wort, multiply 39 by 7.8 to get 304.2 total GU.
- Divide 304.2 by your post-boil volume. If you're targeting 5.5 gallons, divide 304.2 by 5.5 to get 55. This means you will end up with 5.5 gallons of 1.055 wort post-boil.

How short are you from your target? If you are shooting for 1.068, you need to add some extract to correct.

(Total gravity (target) - total gravity (actual)) / Extract/lb value

DME yields 45 GU per pound. LME yields 38 GU per pound.

So the total gravity (target) is 5.5 * 68 (remember, we are trying for a 1.068 wort).

5.5 * 68 = 374

Total gravity (actual) is our calculated final GU * estimated post-boil volume. This is 304.2.

(374 - 304.2) / 45 means we need to add 1.55 lbs of DME, or 1.84 lbs of LME.

This is all from the book "Designing Great Beers", chapter 6. I paraphrased, so there are no copyright issues.

 

[unionrdr]

I goofed on reply #8. I should've said it would likely raise your FG. Higher mash temps give more unfermentable,long chain sugars that give color & flavor. There is a way to calculate how much. I use BS2 so it sems to do all that.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Sounds like you have an efficiency problem, which means you need more grain to match your system to expected outcomes. This is where brewing software like BeerSmith can help a lot. It can help you figure out what your current efficiency is and how much more grain would be needed to bring it in line with OG expectations. Once you figure out where your actual efficiency falls, then you can take steps to improve it if necessary.

As others have already mentioned, mashing at 162° is going to be high for all but a small handful of styles. Assuming that's your actual mash temp and not strike temp, but the fact that your FGs are coming out as expected suggests to me that 162 is your strike temp, not mash temp. As far as at what temp you should be mashing, that depends on the recipe, but most recipes will fall into the 150-154 range.

 

[Stauffbier]

I'm doing all grain. LHBS thinks I'm mashing too high? Usually 162°. So, there is one efficiency issue possibly.

We definitely need to clear up whether 162 is strike temp or mash temp before we can help.

Also.. Does the LHBS crush your grain, or do you have your own mill and crush yourself?

 

[ARaces23]

No that is mash temp. I've been getting strike to 170°. So further crap. Ah, the trial & error of homebrew.
The LHBS does crushing, but I'm in process of building my own. So next time on, it'll be me.
I have some leftover DME, so I could go that route, but when to add it? Also, I'd rather do it right than fudge and correct.
12# 2 row
2# crystal 20
1# Am Victory
.5# special roast
Is grainbill FYI
Thanks

 

[rodwha]

Add it at flameout.

 

[ARaces23]

@rodwha add 1# at flameout? I'm thinking this route, I'll add updated info after Sat.
And yes, to the previous Q, I do cool before taking readings.

 

[rodwha]

1 lb may be a bit much. Do you have a brew calculator?

 

[rodwha]

But it may be good...

 

[rodwha]

Is this a 5 gal brew?

 

[ARaces23]

5.5 gallon, been playing around with fermenticus

 

[Stauffbier]

No that is mash temp. I've been getting strike to 170°. So further crap. Ah, the trial & error of homebrew.
The LHBS does crushing, but I'm in process of building my own. So next time on, it'll be me.
I have some leftover DME, so I could go that route, but when to add it? Also, I'd rather do it right than fudge and correct.
12# 2 row
2# crystal 20
1# Am Victory
.5# special roast
Is grainbill FYI
Thanks

Get your mash temp down to +/- 152F, and either have the LHBS double crush your grains, or when you have a mill do a finer crush than what the LHBS does. I'd be willing to bet that your efficiency will go way up after that.

 

[ARaces23]

I know there are many apps/software out there. Ive been reading through the threads, and I'd like to try before I buy something, but I'll take someone else's word. I'll be using my iPhone/iPad exclusively.
So which route should I go? Not digging this fermenticus, it's more log than anything. I know beer smith has full version coming at some point...but that doesn't help me now. So...beer alchemy or ibrewmaster?

 

[chickypad]

What were the recipes on your last couple batches and what were the OG's? We still don't know where your efficiency is so it's hard to advise you how to alter the recipe. If you can fit it in your mash tun I would add a few lbs of grain to adjust your recipe rather than DME. You can keep the DME on hand in case you're off target after mashing.

Can't help you with advice on those programs I use Beersmtih.

 

[ARaces23]

What were the recipes on your last couple batches and what were the OG's? We still don't know where your efficiency is so it's hard to advise you how to alter the recipe. If you can fit it in your mash tun I would add a few lbs of grain to adjust your recipe rather than DME. You can keep the DME on hand in case you're off target after mashing.

Can't help you with advice on those programs I use Beersmtih.

I don't have those recipes handy, but I gave the OG examples earlier. Missed last one by .008, previous one was .011. So...progress?

 

[rodwha]

I've been using hopville.com, which will become a part of brew toad soon. It's been OK, but most of my recipes have come up over OG... It's free.

 

[ARaces23]

I've been using hopville.com, which will become a part of brew toad soon. It's been OK, but most of my recipes have come up over OG... It's free.

Kinda liking it, full page loads fairly quickly even without an app

 

[Demus]

What efficiency does your recipe assume? With that info, plus your readings, you can figure out how much more grain to add to hit the target. As you get better you may start having the opposite problem, but that's easier to remedy. That's why I love my refractometer; I just mash a little extra grain and stop the sparge when I have what need. There are MANY factors in mash efficiency. Water profile, temperature, pH, grain bill, crush size, sparge technique, and prolly a few more I forgot. It's smart to track your results, and tweak something each time till you get it sorted out...

 

[rodwha]

I like it too. Easy to use. I've been using it for quite some time. But my results are often (85%) higher than expected. But as Demus stated there could be reasons for that.

 

[ARaces23]

What efficiency does your recipe assume? With that info, plus your readings, you can figure out how much more grain to add to hit the target. As you get better you may start having the opposite problem, but that's easier to remedy. That's why I love my refractometer; I just mash a little extra grain and stop the sparge when I have what need. There are MANY factors in mash efficiency. Water profile, temperature, pH, grain bill, crush size, sparge technique, and prolly a few more I forgot. It's smart to track your results, and tweak something each time till you get it sorted out...

Thanks Demus. 74% is assumed in recipe. From a friend's recent brew I enjoyed.
So, should I always get a grain excess above grainbill? My LHBS is 40 minutes away, so if I'm going to be topping off, I'll need to plan ahead. I have a random mixed bag of stuff left over from a brew day in the fall. 2 3# bags of DME, a de-bittered chocolate, and an unlabeled bag of malts.

 

[rodwha]

I'd certainly up the grains until it's all figured out.

 

[Demus]

I'm sure with practice you could easily hit 74%, but until then just figure your recipe for the efficiency you actually get, minus a few percent. Grain is fairly cheap, so for a few extra bucks you get piece of mind and a more accurate representation of the recipe. Adding sugar, DME or LME after the fact will work, but will alter the flavor of the batch. "Wasting" 2 or 3 dollars worth of grain is well worth ensuring you hit your target OG. Even after addressing my own efficiency issues, I still mash a few extra pounds when I brew. I find it allows me to stop the sparge sooner saving time. Plus once in a while I have an "efficiency hiccup", and need the extra slack...

 

[Stauffbier]

Thanks Demus. 74% is assumed in recipe. From a friend's recent brew I enjoyed.
So, should I always get a grain excess above grainbill? My LHBS is 40 minutes away, so if I'm going to be topping off, I'll need to plan ahead. I have a random mixed bag of stuff left over from a brew day in the fall. 2 3# bags of DME, a de-bittered chocolate, and an unlabeled bag of malts.

First I'd say mash at the correct temp and get the grain milled finer. I'd bet money that's all you need to do. Then if that doesn't help you can up your grain bills...

 

[ARaces23]

First I'd say mash at the correct temp and get the grain milled finer. I'd bet money that's all you need to do. Then if that doesn't help you can up your grain bills...

In order, my corrections will be such:
Correcting temp
Finer milling


Adding to recipe.

Since I've not got my mill built yet...would my coffee grinder be a good stopgap in pulse form?

 

[rodwha]

Not sure about that.
You could also ask them to mill it twice next time if you don't have your set up by then.
You could also use a rolling pin or meat tenderizer on what has been milled.

 

[Stauffbier]

I've done the blender, food processor, coffee grinder. It will work, but it's best for BIAB. The grain gets milled so fine it will clog your lautering system. If you have a grain bag and a beverage cooler type mash tun you can line the tun with the bag and try lautering like normal. Otherwise just pull the bag and dunk sparge it in a pot.

I've also done the rolling pin thing. It will also work, but you better be ready for a good workout!

I finally got a Corona mill about a year ago. I love the thing! It was $25 and it woks great! I get as much as 83% efficiency at my best.

If none of this sounds like a good option, then try asking the LHBS to mill tighter or run it twice.

 

[unionrdr]

I feel ya man. I've been using an old mini food processor. That thing is so old,it oughta be bronzed & in a display case. Tried pulsing for different numbers of seconds,but still got a lot of protien haze come fridge time. The fine crush for BIAB,I'm beginning to think,is a bit of an exageration. It seems to make haze at fridge time heavier. I started using Fivestar super moss as of my latest batch,my Moari IPA with fine processor crush. We'll se how that looks in a month,as it'll be dry hopped Sunday if it's done fermenting. My PM beliner Weisse kit is due to be in today. My Barley Crusher is sitting here waiting. I'll try the factory .039" setting this first go around. Gotta charge up the drill for that,as they say it gives a more even crush. I'm hoping between the better crush,getting a more intense initial boil,& the super moss will get my beers clear again.
It was interesting that the dark hybrid lager I brewed using a smaller mash & a cooper's heritage lager can came out clear & stayed that way through fridge time. Maybe PM's of 1/3 or less of the total fermentables stays clear easier? Or maybe it's the Cooper's can? Can't make up my mind on that one?...

 

[Demus]

I agree that temperature and crush are the biggest factors, but I think some of you guys are a bit confused about the crush part. The idea is to CRACK the grain, not mill it into flour. By splitting the husk without completely grinding it up you allow it to act as a filter for the converted sugars to be easily extracted. Gains in efficiency by increased milling only go so far. As long as it's tight enough not to allow whole uncrushed grains through you're good.
Mash pH is another big factor in efficiency. It is influenced by the grain bill itself, water chemistry, and temperature. You can estimate it using various formulas and spreadsheet programs, or measure it with strips or a meter. So....

-1st get ur temp right, 146 to 158 depending on desired fermentability.

-2nd examine your CRUSH closely. It's called a "crush" for a reason, there shouldn't be any whole grains, but not too much fine powdery stuff either. Most LHBSS and online retailers these days give a pretty good crush.

-3rd and most complicated, get to know your water profile and its effect on mash pH. Get a water report or have your source water tested. Wardlabs.com makes it easy and affordable to know for sure what your water contains. With some inexpensive "salts" (powdered minerals) you can custom make the perfect water for every recipe. This will not only increase efficiency, but make your beer taste better too!!

 

[ARaces23]

I agree that temperature and crush are the biggest factors, but I think some of you guys are a bit confused about the crush part. The idea is to CRACK the grain, not mill it into flour. By splitting the husk without completely grinding it up you allow it to act as a filter for the converted sugars to be easily extracted. Gains in efficiency by increased milling only go so far. As long as it's tight enough not to allow whole uncrushed grains through you're good.
Mash pH is another big factor in efficiency. It is influenced by the grain bill itself, water chemistry, and temperature. You can estimate it using various formulas and spreadsheet programs, or measure it with strips or a meter. So....

-1st get ur temp right, 146 to 158 depending on desired fermentability.

-2nd examine your CRUSH closely. It's called a "crush" for a reason, there shouldn't be any whole grains, but not too much fine powdery stuff either. Most LHBSS and online retailers these days give a pretty good crush.

-3rd and most complicated, get to know your water profile and its effect on mash pH. Get a water report or have your source water tested. Wardlabs.com makes it easy and affordable to know for sure what your water contains. With some inexpensive "salts" (powdered minerals) you can custom make the perfect water for every recipe. This will not only increase efficiency, but make your beer taste better too!!

I typically run the water through a purifier, is that not a great idea?

 

[unionrdr]

As far as crush is concerned,I for one didn't have much control over it till my barley crusher came in. Now I can get a crush without a lot of the floury part. But the crush I keep getting from midwest has a lot of what looks like whole grains left in it. I was thinking of running it through the barley crusher one more time before mashing. Besides being a Berliner Weisse,I'm not sure to use super moss in the batch?
I typically mash at 152,the temp going up 1 degree to 153F over the 1 hour mash. So I'm good there. And I've been using local spring water to brew with. Gives a good balance of malt & hop flavors. The yeasties seem to do a good job in it too.

 

[Yooper]

I typically run the water through a purifier, is that not a great idea?

It's ok, but if you don't know the water to begin with then you still don't know what you end up with!

Mash pH could be a part of the reason for poor efficiency also. If you can get a water profile from your water supplier, or send a sample to Ward Lab to get the information (it costs $16.50 for the info you need), that would help you know what your water is to start with and then how to fix it if it's a problem.