Adding gelatin without secondary or cold crashing?

[dsaavedra]

I just brewed a batch of BM's Cream of 3 Crops and the wort was mighty cloudy I suspect the cloudiness was due to a combination of my paint strainer bag with mesh that is too large (I need to get a bag from that vendor on this site) and my doubled crushed grains and flaked corn... it looked like there was a lot of flour in these grains that probably got through the mesh into my wort.

Anyhow, I was thinking of using gelatin to get this crisp light summer beer super clear, it just seems to suit the style. Problem is, I don't have a way to cold crash my beer and I'm not using a secondary fermentor.

My question is, can I just follow standard protocol for using gelatin (1 tbsp in 1 cup of water, heat and add to beer, right?) and just leave it in my beer at fermentation temps (mid 60's) for the last week or so of primary before bottling and expect good results?

 

[RPCidery]

I've only used gelatin on two or three batches, but it sure seems to work better if the beer is cold.

 

[Toy4Rick]

Based on everything I have read the beer must be cold. Are you kegging, if so then add it about 3 days into carbonation and when it's fully carb'd you should be good to go

Rick

 

[dsaavedra]

No I am bottling

Have any of you tried it without cold crashing? Does the gelatin just work faster when added to cold beer? Or is cold absolutely necessary for it to work. It would not be a problem for me to leave the gelatin in the primary at mid 60's for a week or more.

What exactly happens with the gelatin after it's added and does it's thing? Does it form a gelatinous mass at the bottom of your carboy on top of the trub?

 

[RPCidery]

I had a beer sitting in a keg for over a week with gelatin in it at room temp, and it was still cloudy. A few days in the keezer, and now it's a clear as you please. So, yes, it looks like you ain't gonna get out of refrigerating it.

 

[wfowlks]

You could do a swamp cooler of sorts. Just put tge fermenter in one of those big storage tubs or a clean trash can. Then put ice &water in and then put your fermenter in there. The gelatin only really needs 24 hours. But if it's cold at first then warms up a little that is fine

 

[kombat]

You need to chill the beer first. Cooling the beer causes any chill haze to precipitate out of solution, so that the gelatin can latch onto it and drag it to the bottom of the fermenter. Gelatin is very effective on cold beer, but practically worthless otherwise.

In your case (no ability to cool, bottling rather than kegging), your only real option would be to give it some time to clarify. However, at room temperature, you're likely looking at several weeks, which is not necessarily the best for a light, blonde ale.

Also, in your OP, it sounded like you maybe crushed your flaked corn. Did I misread that? Flaked corn should be added directly to the mash, and not milled.

 

[dsaavedra]

I double milled my grains which produced quite a bit of flour but I did not mill the flaked corn. It comes pre-packaged in 1lb bags at my LHBS, and there looked to be quite a bit of flour in the bottom of the bags, probably due to shipping and handling. Would it be a good idea to use a strainer of some sort to eliminate the flour from my grains/adjuncts in the future?

Since it appears gelatin will not work unless added to cold beer, I'm going to look into my options. I have an empty mini-fridge but I think it may be too small to fit my carboy - I will check it out. I also have a full size fridge in the garage but it is full of sodas, water, and beer. If I could get away with re-locating all the drinks I could fit my carboy in that fridge.

Can anyone tell me what happens with the gelatin after it does its thing? Does it make a layer of beer-jello at the bottom of the carboy which I would just rack off of when I transfer to the bottling bucket?

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[hunter_le five]

I've heard many claim that the beer must be cold for the beer to work.
I have heard many claim the exact opposite.
I guess the jury is still out.

I personally always add my gelatin after the beer has been chilled. But I won't sit here and tell you that's the way it must be, because I have personally never tried it the other way. I know gelatin in cold beer works. I can't say that gelatin in warm beer doesn't.

Hell, just hydrate and pitch the gelatin into your beer and see what happens. It just might work. It certainly isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[dsaavedra]

Any word on what is left over in the carboy after you use gelatin?

 

[Warthaug]

If you follow the link in my signature I have a couple of posts on using gelatin & the science behind it. Long story short, the gelatin will clear your beer at warmer temps, but not as well as at cooler ones. Cooling decreases the solubility of proteins, so more will get pulled out. At warmer temps you're only pulling out the yeast and the least soluble proteins.

Bryan

 

[hunter_le five]

Any word on what is left over in the carboy after you use gelatin?

Trub/yeast sediment/coagulated proteins/etc. if you are asking will you be left with a big bowl of jelly... No.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[RPCidery]

Just compact trub.

 

[wfowlks]

Yeah like a thick yeast cake. You are not heating it above 170 F where it turns into gelatin

 

[dsaavedra]

Cool cool, thanks for all the responses. I'm glad it doesn't turn into some big yucky mess. I'm definitely going to look into my cold crashing options.

 

[wfowlks]

So. I am actually in the process of brewing a Blonde ale, So I thought I'd do the experiement for you. The first picture is from last night ~10PM, when I pulled it out of the swamp cooler and it was @ 68 F.


I then racked it to the secondary, and I mixed 1 packet of clear gelatin with 2/3 cup of water and heated it to 152 degrees ( I was looking for between 150 and 155). Poured it into the carboy shook it up, then placed the carboy in a party keg bucket filled it with ice and water and this is the picture of it from ~ 7:00 AM this morning.

 

[hunter_le five]

Poured it into the carboy shook it up

You shook up a carboy of fermented beer?? Aren't you worried about oxidation?

I just pour my gelatin on top and leave it alone, no shaking or stirring needed.

As far as clearing the beer though, looks like it's working nicely.


Sent from my mind using telepathy.

 

[wfowlks]

You shook up a carboy of fermented beer?? Aren't you worried about oxidation?

I just pour my gelatin on top and leave it alone, no shaking or stirring needed.

As far as clearing the beer though, looks like it's working nicely.


Sent from my mind using telepathy.

Ok "Shook up" may have been a strong term. I gently swirled it. Typically I purge the oxygen from the secondary first using a spare CO2 line in my kegerator and I have also done it without purging the O2 first and I have not seen much difference.

 

[hunter_le five]

Gotcha, that makes more sense.

 

[dsaavedra]

Wow that is quite the difference!! How cold do you think you were able to get it down to in the bucket of ice water? Good to know this is an option if I can't get my carboy into a fridge.

 

[wfowlks]

I'd probably say close to 32. I used rock salt

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here is a very good link on the correct use of gelatin as a fining agent:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06...h-gelatin.html

Cheers!

 

[dsaavedra]

Here is a very good link on the correct use of gelatin as a fining agent:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06...h-gelatin.html

Cheers!

That is a really clear and straightforward article, thanks! I really hope I can make room for my carboy in the spare fridge, I'm looking forward to trying gelatin out, it seems really easy!!

 

[insanim8er]

You shook up a carboy of fermented beer?? Aren't you worried about oxidation?

I just pour my gelatin on top and leave it alone, no shaking or stirring needed.

As far as clearing the beer though, looks like it's working nicely.


Sent from my mind using telepathy.

Ditto... I open the corny, dump it, close the corny, purge. No need to mix/shake/swirl unless you're super excited about your soon to be crystal clear beer and want to dance.

Here is a very good link on the correct use of gelatin as a fining agent:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06...h-gelatin.html

Cheers!

That's the method I use and the article I forward to those who haven't done it before. I even used the method on a hard lemonade with exceptional results. Crystal clear in two days. I've had ciders than didn't clear up even after 6mo. I love gelatin as a finning agent.

 

[wfowlks]

Yeah, I love Bertus Brewery's site, his writing is very good and his clone recipes are spot on. A great brewing resource, however lately he has slowed his posting, but that is mainly due to planning and getting married, now he is off galavanting through Europe. #Jealous

 

[beernutz]

Here is a very good link on the correct use of gelatin as a fining agent:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06...h-gelatin.html

Cheers!

It is a good article so I'll add the updated link: How to Clear Your Beer with Gelatin – Bertus Brewery