Add new yeast? Bad results in the past

[ed5388]

I brewed a Black IPA on Friday. Pitched White Labs (San Diego Super Strain) with no starter. It's been two days with zero activity. I know the general rule of thumb is give it at least three days, which I plan on doing (as well as taking a gravity reading). Just trying to prepare myself if the yeast doesn't take. Here's my question/past problem:

Is it ok to pitch a dry yeast (safale s-05) when I have a different strain of yeast (that didn't take) already in my wort?

Reason I ask is when I first got into brewing three years ago I brewed a brown ale and pitched a vial of white labs English ale yeast that didn't take. I pitched dry yeast 4 days later after there was no activity/change in gravity reading. Once I pitched the dry yeast I had a INSANE fermentation. So active it brought the temp of my wort over 90 degrees. (Almost seemed like it awakened the liquid yeast and both yeast strains went to town). Anyway after fermentation I allowed it to sit for an additional two weeks before bottling. After bottle conditioning I had bottle bombs and the beers that I was able to try had terrible off flavors. I'm very sanitary when brewing/bottling. So I guess my question is did my brown ale get an infection/off flavors from the addition of dry yeast when I had previously pitched an inactive liquid yeast? Or did I some how get an infection during bottling or re pitching the dry yeast?

Thanks for reading and for any input in this matter!

Cheers
Ed

 

[heckler73]

zero activity on the gravity reading?

 

[ed5388]

No activity in the airlock and no change in gravity reading

 

[ed5388]

Bump. Anyone have any knowledge or experience they can lend on the subject?

 

[pitmaster666]

i have had to add yeast before, it didnt go crazy so i think my first yeast was just too old though. if u have to do it, and it goes crazy again, just give it all the time you.can in secondary and if possible cold crash it to let a little less yeast get to bottle. i have cold crashed before bottlimg and you still let enough in to carbonate.

 

[ed5388]

Thanks 👍

 

[kh54s10]

My first question is why no starters? A vial is only enough yeast if it is very fresh AND the beer is a low gravity recipe.

Second is how are you controlling your fermentation temperatures? You should be doing something to control the temperature. Swamp cooler, fermentation bag, chamber etc. If not any yeast can make the temperature rise higher than wanted..

If you make a starter with liquid yeast and control your fermentation temperatures you should not have to make a second pitch and thus avoid the problems you are experiencing.

 

[ed5388]

Brewing is a small hobby for me and my time is very limited, so when I finally get a chance to brew I don't have time to make starters the night before. Plus I've brewed lots of batches without starters and never had an issue.

My issue with the hight temp was a one time thing that happened, and like I stated it was the one time I had to re pitch yeast. I know how to regulate my temps and that is not the issue at hand.

I was curious if something like that would happen again if I had to re pitch with dry yeast.

And the vial I pitched was fresh, and the black IPA was only a two gallon batch that was split up into 2 one gallon fermenters, so one vial was split between both and should have been plenty.

I know I "should" be using starters, but like I said don't have time for starters, nor do I have the equipment at the moment and my methods for regulating my temps are not my issue.

My question is simply "is it ok to re pitch with dry yeast if my liquid yeast doesn't take off? Or will have have issues like off flavors?

 

[SDCraftBeer]

I love the 090 and use for pretty much all my beers. It can be a bit finicky. What temp did you pitch at? What temp is the wort at now? I know thats not your question but I think the yeast will still take off.

 

[ed5388]

I love the 090 and use for pretty much all my beers. It can be a bit finicky. What temp did you pitch at? What temp is the wort at now? I know thats not your question but I think the yeast will still take off.

No prob! I appreciate any feedback. I pitched at 70* and wort is sitting between 72-74*, which is where I thought it said to be at. I found out one of my brewing buddies just brewed a session IPA and pitched the same yeast without a starter and he also hasn't seen any activity in 2 days. Hopefully something will start by tomorrow night. Any suggestions? Raise or lower temp? And when do you normally start seeing activity when you use it? And out of curiosity are you pitching straight from the vial or are you making a starter?

 

[ed5388]

I love the 090 and use for pretty much all my beers. It can be a bit finicky. What temp did you pitch at? What temp is the wort at now? I know thats not your question but I think the yeast will still take off.

No prob! I appreciate any feedback. I pitched at 70* and wort is sitting between 72-74*, which is where I thought it said to be at. I found out one of my brewing buddies just brewed a session IPA and pitched the same yeast without a starter and he also hasn't seen any activity in 2 days. Hopefully something will start by tomorrow night. Any suggestions? Raise or lower temp? And when do you normally start seeing activity when you use it? And out of curiosity are you pitching straight from the vial or are you making a starter?

 

[ed5388]

No prob! I appreciate any feedback. I pitched at 70* and wort is sitting between 72-74*, which is where I thought it said to be at. I found out one of my brewing buddies just brewed a session IPA and pitched the same yeast without a starter and he also hasn't seen any activity in 2 days. Hopefully something will start by tomorrow night. Any suggestions? Raise or lower temp? And when do you normally start seeing activity when you use it? And out of curiosity are you pitching straight from the vial or are you making a starter?

 

[ed5388]

Sorry for the multiple posts. My phone is acting up 😬

 

[SDCraftBeer]

I usually pitch at the lowest twmp I can get the wort with my chiller...lately since its been so hot here I've been around 70 and then I throw it in the freezer and get it to 63 right away. I will usually see some activity within 12 hours. I have made starters (which I do for all my brews now) and habe pitched just the vial as well. All have started within 24-36 hours. How old is the vial? Was it shipped to you? I would bring the wort down to 65-68 as White Lab recommends for 090 and hope it takes off. I have talked to numerous people who have seen it take 3+ days for 090 to take off.

 

[ed5388]

Awesome! Thank you so much for the advise! I'll bring down the temp some and let it ride a few more days! Thanks again

 

[SDCraftBeer]

Good luck. Keep us posted. Cheers.

 

[g-star]

The off flavors in your brown ale were most likely due to fermenting at 90F. As others have mentioned, liquid yeast really needs a starter in almost all cases. If you don't have the time/inclination to do that, your best bet is to stick to dry yeast and do your best to control fermentation temps.

 

[ed5388]

The off flavors in your brown ale were most likely due to fermenting at 90F. As others have mentioned, liquid yeast really needs a starter in almost all cases. If you don't have the time/inclination to do that, your best bet is to stick to dry yeast and do your best to control fermentation temps.

I figured as much. Like I said that brown ale was the second batch I ever brewed (brewed three years ago). The only reason I brought up that story was cause it was the only time I EVER had to pitch new yeast, and when I did it caused such an over active fermentation that it caused my wort to reach 90*. Know one seems to be understanding what the question is I'm asking Lol and I'm not trying to come off in a negative way. I'm just curious if I pitch dry yeast on top of the existing liquid yeast (that seems to be dead or dormant) if I'm going to have the same issue (extremely OVER active fermentation, and/or off flavors from pitching more yeast). I understand I should have done a starter if using liquid (which hasn't been an issue in about 20 batches I've done in the past) and I know high temps cause off flavors and that the yeast needs to be at a certain temp to properly ferment. That stuff I already know. As I stated I'm NOT a rookie brewer, just not sure if the one time I re pitched yeast and had issues (with the brown ale 3 years ago) was a fluke incident, or if the same will happen with my current batch of black IPA. Let me simplify the question

Can I pitch dry yeast in wort that has dead or dormant yeast already in it without ruining the beer? Or will pitching more yeast cause off flavors and possibly infect my beer?

Sorry if I'm coming off frustrated, (cause I really do appreciate everyone that has taken the time to respond), but unfortunately mostly everyone that has offered advice is touching on the things I already know and not the question at hand. Lol.

At this point I'm gonna give it till the end of today (72 hours) and pitch dry yeast. I guess the only way I'll really get the answer I'm looking for is to just do it and find out for myself.

Thanks again everyone

 

[SDCraftBeer]

You will be fine if you pitch the dry yeast. Just make sure you bring it down to the low 60's to account for a vigorous fermentation. It shouldn't cause any off flavors if you let the beer condition properly and let the yeast flocculate fully.

 

[ed5388]

You will be fine if you pitch the dry yeast. Just make sure you bring it down to the low 60's to account for a vigorous fermentation. It shouldn't cause any off flavors if you let the beer condition properly and let the yeast flocculate fully.

Thanks SDCraftBeer. You've been most helpful! Much appreciated!

 

[ed5388]

You will be fine if you pitch the dry yeast. Just make sure you bring it down to the low 60's to account for a vigorous fermentation. It shouldn't cause any off flavors if you let the beer condition properly and let the yeast flocculate fully.

Well you were right SDCraftBeer. Definitely a finicky strain! Like I said I brewed a small two gallon batch of black IPA. Half toasted coconut and the other half jalapeño. Lowered the temps of both under 70*. The coconut finally took off. Just waiting on the jalapeño now!

 

[SDCraftBeer]

Awesome! I'm glad to hear that. Hopefully by now the other has taken off too. Jalepeno Black IPA sounds interesting... Did you post that recipe?