Receipe and water profile advice on my next imperial stout

[strongarm]

I’m working on my next Russian Imperial Stout and will be doing a BIAB. I have found that my Stouts have a little bite to them…some astringency…not overwhelming but some and I’m looking for a smoother flavor profile.

Here is my recipe, any suggestions?

Imperial Stout
Type: All Grain BIAB
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: 15gal boil pot, counterflow chiller
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage,Bourbon Barrel 2nd stage

Ingredients
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
27 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 79.4 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.4 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.4 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.9 %
1 lbs Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.9 %
1 lbs Simpsons British Chocolate (450.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 %
8.0 oz Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.5 %
8.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 8 1.5 %
3.00 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 60.4 IBUs
2.50 oz Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 10 16.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 23.2 IBUs
4.00 Items Anise, Star (Boil 30.0 mins) Spice 12 -
2.00 oz Cascade [7.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 3.4 IBUs
15.00 Items Vanilla Bean (Secondary) Spice 14 -
3.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49ml] Yeast 15 -
1.0 pkg Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP099) [35.49 ml] Yeast 16 – (Only used if primary yeast dies off too early)
6.00 oz Cocoa Nibs (Secondary) Flavor 17 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.151 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 17 %
Bitterness: 103.0 IBUs
Calories: 458.3 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 58.5 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body,
No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 34 lbs
Mash Temp: 156.0 F 90 minutes


I am also curious about my water profile. Doing some research I know the water profile is important especially when your mashing. Is a RA around 250 too high and appropriate for this dark beer? I downloaded the bru’n water excel program but I don’t think I fully understand how to use it and the results. I get a mash Ph of 5.2, RA 42 (hardness 210, alkalinity 90) if I input my values correctly but I don’t know if I did….the numbers don’t seem right? Additionally I was considering not mashing my dark grains but doing a cold brew with them (leave crushed roasted grains in cold water for 12 hours then strain grains)…I have read just like brewing coffee when you cold brew grains it dosen’t extract acidity and produces a smoother product. I assume this would increase my Ph level of the mash since the acidity of the roasted grains wouldn’t be in the mash and my OG would be lower since I don’t believe any of the sugars will be extracted from the cold brew….I guess I could just increase my base grains to compensate for those lost fermentables.

My city water report is located here www.lbcwd.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=38

2011 Metropolitan Water District of Southern California Treated Surface Water
PHG, or Average Range of MCL Typical Source
Chemical MCL (MCLG) Amount Detections Violation? of Contaminant
Radiologicals – Tested in 2011
Alpha Radiation (pCi/L) 15 (0) 3 ND – 3 No Erosion of Natural Deposits
Beta Radiation (pCi/L) 50 (0) <4 ND – 4 No Decay of Man-made or Natural Deposits
Uranium (pCi/l) 20 0.43 2 2 No Erosion of Natural Deposits
Inorganic Chemicals – Tested in 2011
Aluminum (ppm) 1 0.6 0.14 ND – 0.24 No Treatment Process Residue, Natural Deposits
Fluoride (ppm) treatment-related Control Range 0.7 – 1.3 ppm 0.8 0.5 – 1.0 No Water Additive for Dental Health
Optimal Level 0.8 ppm
Nitrate as NO3 (ppm) 45 45 <2 ND – 2 No Agriculture Runoff and Sewage
Nitrate + Nitrite as N (ppm) 10 10 < 0.4 ND – 0.4 No Agriculture Runoff and Sewage
Secondary Standards* – Tested in 2011
Aluminum (ppb) 200* 600 140 ND – 240 No Treatment Process Residue, Natural Deposits
Chloride (ppm) 500* n/a 72 70 – 75 No Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Color (color units) 15* n/a 1 1 No Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Odor (threshold odor number) 3* n/a 2 2 No Naturally-occurring Organic Materials
Specific Conductance (&#956;mho/cm) 1,600* n/a 690 320 – 960 No Substances that Form Ions in Water
Sulfate (ppm) 500* n/a 160 150 – 170 No Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Total Dissolved Solids (ppm) 1,000* n/a 470 440 – 490 No Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Turbidity (ntu) 5* n/a 0.05 0.03 – 0.25 No Soil Runoff
Unregulated Chemicals – Tested in 2011
Alkalinity, total as CaCO3 (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 90 48 – 120 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Boron (ppb) NL = 1,000 n/a 130 130 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Calcium (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 51 47 – 55 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Hardness, total as CaCO3 (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 190 57 – 270 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Hardness, total (grains/gal) Not Regulated n/a 11 3 – 16 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Magnesium (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 20 19 – 21 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
pH (pH units) Not Regulated n/a 8.0 7.0 – 8.6 n/a Hydrogen Ion Concentration
Potassium (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 3.8 3.6 – 4.0 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Sodium (ppm) Not Regulated n/a 72 67 – 77 n/a Runoff or Leaching from Natural Deposits
Total Organic Carbon (ppm) Not Regulated TT 2.4 1.7 – 3.0 n/a Various Natural and Man-made Sources
ppb = parts-per-billion; ppm = parts-per-million; ppt = parts-per-trillion; pCi/L = picoCuries per liter; ntu = nephelometric turbidity units; &#956;mho/cm = micromhos per centimeter;
ND = not detected; < = average is less than the detection limit for reporting purposes; MCL = Maximum Contaminant Level; (MCLG) = federal MCL Goal; PHG = California Public Health Goal;
NL = Notification Level; n/a = not applicable; TT = treatment technique * Contaminant is regulated by a secondary standard.
Turbidity – combined filter effluent Treatment Turbidity TT Typical Source
Diemer Filtration Plant Technique Measurements Violation? of Contaminant
1) Highest single turbidity measurement 0.3 NTU 0.08 No Soil Runoff
2) Percentage of samples less than 0.3 NTU 95% 100% No Soil Runoff
Turbidity is a measure of the cloudiness of the water, an indication of particulate matter, some of which might include harmful microorganisms.
Low turbidity in Metropolitan’s treated water is a good indicator of effective filtration. Filtration is called a “treatment technique“ (TT).
A treatment technique is a required process intended to reduce the level of contaminants in drinking water that are difficult and sometimes impossible to measure directly.

 

[bobbrews]

I have found that my Stouts have a little bite to them&#8230;some astringency&#8230;not overwhelming but some and I&#8217;m looking for a smoother flavor profile.

This could very well be coming from the high amount of hops you are using from 60-30 minutes, and not necessarily the water profile. Are you reaching a vigorous boil before you add the hops and getting a good hot break? There are alternate methods to cold steep darker grains in an effort to limit harshness. Astringency can also result from overuse or misuse of spices, or even a poor sparging process.

http://www.bjcp.org/faults.php

Your base water looks decent aside from higher than normal sodium levels. The sulfate may be a bit high for a stout, but you are brewing a very hoppy version of a stout, so I'm not sure the same rules apply. Sulfate harshness begins to present itself around 300 ppm in bitter beers.

Ca: 51
Mg: 20
Cl: 72
Sul: 160
Na: 72

Alk: 90
Hd: 190

Visit this site if you want to perfect your brewing water: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[strongarm]

Thanks for the reply. I can push some of the bittering hops towards the mid boil but I was trying to balance against the 30lbs of malt, do you feel 3oz of summit for bittering is too much for this beer? I am reaching a vigorous boil prior to first hop addition. Currently I do not sparge.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the reply. I can push some of the bittering hops towards the mid boil but I was trying to balance against the 30lbs of malt, do you feel 3oz of summit for bittering is too much for this beer? I am reaching a vigorous boil prior to first hop addition. Currently I do not sparge.

That's a very high sulfate level, and I think that is where the harshness is coming from.

I'd dilute that with distilled water to get the sulfate level down- probably in half (lower would even be better, but half would work). Then you can use a brewing water spreadsheet to make sure you add enough calcium chloride to get you to about 50 ppm of calcium.

 

[strongarm]

Something else I forgot to mention is I am setting up a filtration system.

It's a GE housing
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202073861?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051&N=5yc1vZaqv5&R=202073861

and the filter
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Chlorine-Lead-Chemical-Undersnk-Filter-FXUVC/100471297

I have no problem adding as much RO or distilled water as needed. How should I adjust given this info? Should I setup a RO system instead of the carbon filter setup I was planning on using?

 

[strongarm]

Yooper.....When I dilute 50% with RO water and add .25grams Calcium Chloride per gallon I get Caclium 44 and Chloride 70. Does that sound correct.

I really don't know what im doing here

 

[strongarm]

After some further research I better understand the calculator. So here is my plan
Dilute with 40% RO water and add .25g/gal pickling lime to mash. This results in
Calcium - 66
Magnesium - 12
Sodium - 46
Sulfate - 96
Chloride - 45
Bicarbonate - 181
Cations - 6.3
Anions - 6.2
Total Hardness - 216
Alkalinity - 150
RA - 95
Ph. 5.9

My ph seems a little high, do I need to worry about that? Also my RA seems a little low, but if I add more pickling lime or calcium chloride it brings my Calcium levels up very high. Should I bump up my pickling lime or calcium chloride to get a higher RA? I thought dark stouts were supposed to be in the 250 range?

Maybe to bring down my ph a little I can add my 1lb of special b into the mash instead of cold brewing it with the other dark grains like I had planned?

 

[mabrungard]

RA is a side show. Don't worry about RA. The only thing that matters is the mash pH.

A 5.9 mash pH is quite high. You really need to get it under 5.6. So, it doesn't appear that lime is needed and its possible that a little more dilution or acid will be needed to get that mash pH down.