Pimp My Recipe - Irish Red

[SouthBay]

So, I wanted to get some feedback and suggestions on my first Irish Red. Let me know what you think and I welcome suggestions.

10 lb 2-Row (thinking of going with Marris Otter over American)
1 lb Munich 10L
8oz Caramel 40L
4oz Caramel 120L
2oz Carafa II Special

90 Minute Boil

1.5oz Willamette hops @ 60 min
.5 oz Williamette hops @ 5 min

With 75% Efficiency, that puts me at 1.051OG and 25 IBUs (boiling all the wort, using average AA's for the hops - we'll see what the actual AA is from the LHBS when I pick up ingredients. I'll adjust the bittering addition to keep the BU:OG ratio at ~.5)

I'll dough in at 125 for 20 min at 1:1 water:grain, then use an infusion mash to 153-154 for 60 min, and mashout to 168 for 15 minutes.

Ferment at about 65 degrees in the primary for 2-3 weeks, then rack to the secondary and lager for 4 weeks. I'll be serving from a tap-a-draft for most of it, and bottling any remainder.

Yeast will most likely be the White Labs 004 Irish Ale yeast, pitched from a starter.

My intent is to create a nice, quaffable, malty drink with a good foamy head. I want to keep the toastiness down, but have a nice, dry finish. Thoughs?

 

[GuldTuborg]

The grainbill and hopping look pretty solid. Why not just use a single infusion mash? What do you hope to get from the protein rest? I see it only causing problems.

 

[Bob]

Yeah, you really don't need the rest unless you are predicting haze issues. When using 2-row, a short (10-minutes) rest at 122-125F can be beneficial for foam, but with the specialty grains you're including it won't be needed, and you really shouldn't use one with Maris Otter; you'll actually degrade more proteins than you'll create with a low-temperature rest.

Go with a single infusion at 152F and call it a day.

Cheers!

Bob

 

[SouthBay]

Mostly the purpose of the rest is to maintain consistency in my mashing techniques. I'd had really poor efficiency when I first started, but tweaked it over the course of several batches to get a decent efficiency, typically between 75% and 80%. I'll try removing the protein rest this time around though and see what happens.

Any suggestions on the water/grain ratio to start with a single infusion mash? Like posted, I usually start at 1:1 in the protein rest, and finish at wherever the sacc and mashout infusions take me.

Also, 152 for the mash temp? I was thinking slightly higher to retain more residual sweetness. Plus, I'm pretty sure my tun is going to lose a few degrees over the course of that hour.

Last thought on the Carafa II Special: I've never used this one, so would you suggest going with a full mash with it, or just cap the mash in the last 15 minutes or so? The plan is to have just a hint of toastiness with a dry finish. Malty up front, but not fruity.

Thanks in advance!

 

[BrewThruYou]

Last thought on the Carafa II Special: I've never used this one, so would you suggest going with a full mash with it, or just cap the mash in the last 15 minutes or so? The plan is to have just a hint of toastiness with a dry finish. Malty up front, but not fruity.

Thanks in advance!

I've never used Carafa II (just ordered some for a Black IPA), but I like the idea of capping the mash.

My last Irish Red used 4oz of roasted barley for the full mash and it came out too astringent, roasty and dark colored. Next time, I'm just going reduce the amount to 2oz and/or just cap the mash instead of having it in there for the whole time. Haven't decided yet.

 

[SouthBay]

My last Irish Red used 4oz of roasted barley for the full mash and it came out too astringent, roasty and dark colored. Next time, I'm just going reduce the amount to 2oz and/or just cap the mash instead of having it in there for the whole time. Haven't decided yet.

Thats pretty much what I want to avoid. I understand the Carafa II is supposedly less bitter/astringent. I hope that 2 oz will be enough to give it that hint of flavor, but not overpower it.

 

[Bob]

Mostly the purpose of the rest is to maintain consistency in my mashing techniques. I'd had really poor efficiency when I first started, but tweaked it over the course of several batches to get a decent efficiency, typically between 75% and 80%. I'll try removing the protein rest this time around though and see what happens.

My worry is that resting will degrade too much of the protein you need for foam. Modern, well-modified malts generally don't need that rest. However, that's not set in stone; there are other factors which may impact foam which a short rest at ~122F will address.

Any suggestions on the water/grain ratio to start with a single infusion mash? Like posted, I usually start at 1:1 in the protein rest, and finish at wherever the sacc and mashout infusions take me.

You know, I never even look? I just know how much liquor I need to arrive at a given kettle volume and mash in to what looks and feels right. Then I sparge with the rest.

One thing I have noticed is that the overwhelming majority of homebrewers I know mash too soupy for my tastes. 1:1 is good as good for single infusion as for step-infusion, IMO.

Also, 152 for the mash temp? I was thinking slightly higher to retain more residual sweetness. Plus, I'm pretty sure my tun is going to lose a few degrees over the course of that hour.

Yeah, 152 is what I'd target. You've got enough Crystal malt in this for sweetness, plus Munich for maltiness. If you're going to use an under-attenuating strain like Irish Ale, you need to mash for fermentability or you'll end up with a sweet beer.

Last thought on the Carafa II Special: I've never used this one, so would you suggest going with a full mash with it, or just cap the mash in the last 15 minutes or so? The plan is to have just a hint of toastiness with a dry finish. Malty up front, but not fruity.

Dude, I use UK-sourced roasted barley in that proportion and don't get flavor pickup. Don't worry about Carafa. 2 ounces will provide color and precious little else (certainly not anything detectable). That's the point of using Carafa in the first place, instead of roasted barley or some other high-kilned malt!

To meet your plan, mash relatively low, as aforesaid (dry finish), or use a higher-attenuating yeast. Malty you'll get from your specialty grains. "Not fruity" will depend on your yeast strain, pitch rate and ferment temperature. You're going to get some sweet fruit from the dark Crystal malt; the key will be controlling a relatively clean yeast strain.

Cheers,

Bob