Palpatine Porter Recipe Critique

[TheMadKing]

So this is a slightly outside style baltic porter. I would say this is pushing the boundaries between a porter and an imperial stout. I'm slightly worried that it will end up too sweet especially with the vanilla, so I'm hoping for some input and thoughts from fellow brewers.

Palpatine Porter
Baltic Porter

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.091 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.8 %
Bitterness: 32.4 IBUs Calories:
Est Color: 33.0 SRM


Ingredients
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.9 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
1 lbs Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 %
8.0 oz Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 7 2.9 %

0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 27.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 4.8 IBUs

1.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 ml]

4.00 oz Oak Cubes (Bourbon Soaked) (Secondary 14.0 days)
2.00 Vanilla Beans (Secondary to taste)
4.00 oz 160 proof oak infused corn whiskey (@ kegging)

I BIAB full volume mash no sparge (yes I can handle the volume)

planned mash temp 149F for 90 minutes

I'm also planning to serve this at a party at the end of january, and I'm hoping the flavors will mellow by then (brewing sunday). I can also just leave out the oak and whiskey on this one to speed the aging process.

I appreciate any thoughts and comments!

 

[z-bob]

It's not a style I really know much about, although I have my first in the fermenter right now. If my comments are totally wrong, someone please say so, so I can learn too!

Isn't that an awful lot of crystal, particularly in a high ABV beer? How about using a half pound of amber malt and another half pound of pale instead of the 40L?

 

[TheMadKing]

It's not a style I really know much about, although I have my first in the fermenter right now. If my comments are totally wrong, someone please say so, so I can learn too!

Isn't that an awful lot of crystal, particularly in a high ABV beer? How about using a half pound of amber malt and another half pound of pale instead of the 40L?

that's why I was concerned about the sweetness. The crystal isn't ridiculously high by most recipe standards at 11% of the grain though. I also added .5 lb of brown sugar and dropped the mash temp hoping to attenuate more fully. I also plan to slightly overpitch from a 1.75L starter, all in hopes of compensating for the crystal sweetness while maintaining the complexity from it.

 

[z-bob]

11% crystal isn't all that high; but I think alcohol tastes sweet. At almost 10%...

I didn't use any crystal malt in mine because I used a low-attenuating yeast, and I thought the brown malt would provide lots of dextrin to give it body.

Hopefully one of the experts will jump in here.

 

[JKaranka]

Increase the Brown malt to two pounds and remove a pound of crystal. You get a lot of complexity from brown malt and you can easily use up to 20-25% of the grist.

 

[Jukas]

I'm not super familar with that style, but I think you're running low on IBU if you wish to avoid it being too malty/sweet. Someone with more style familiarty can correct me, but I believe the primary difference in a baltic porter is that it's cooler fermented typically with a lager yeast and then cold conditioned/lagered.

At 1.091 OG I'd be shooting for > 50 IBU probably in the 55-65 IBU range.

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks for all the input guys!

@Jukas I think you're right about upping the IBUs, especially with the vanilla addition that will bring out sweetness. I'll up the Columbus to 1.25 oz

But Baltic Porter is just a bigger badder version of a regular Porter more or less. It's usually made with a clean fermenting ale yeast and aged to allow the flavors to blend.

I tasted the brown malt kernels and got a ton of roasty flavor which I was hoping to keep balanced, does that character not come through in the beer @JKaranka?

I've also heard that brown malt takes a long time to balance, and I only have a month to age this thing

 

[TheMadKing]

Oh and just for clarification I do want it slightly sweet, just not obnoxiously so

 

[JKaranka]

Brown malt has a mellow roast and dry malty character. Two pounds is not a lot and will mellow out (takes long when you use a lot, like 5#). That said, a beer with an OG of 1.090 might struggle to condition in a month no matter what you put in it.

 

[TheMadKing]

Ok I'm dropping the 120 and adding a pound of brown malt

 

[TheMadKing]

Well my efficiency was crap, but otherwise a good brew day. 59% ugh... May go traditional mash/sparge next time instead of BIAB for beers this big

 

[TheMadKing]

Well this thing's gravity tanked down to 1.009. I've never had a beer over attenuate this much, that scottish ale yeast is something else!

The alcohol is certainly there, but the IBU's are a bit high because it lost some sweetness. I'm considering a touch of lactose to back sweeten it a bit. The oak, vanilla, and bourbon are at 7 days and barely noticable over the up front bitterness and hot alcohol taste.

This baby is going to need some time.

EDIT: I should also clarify that I upped the brown sugar to 1lb and added 1lb of DME to recover some of the gravity points I lost due to the crappy efficiency. That probably had something to do with the FG being so low.

 

[TheMadKing]

here is the actual "as brewed recipe"

Palpatine Porter
Baltic Porter

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.009 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.5 %
Bitterness: too many IBUs
Est Color: 33.0 SRM


Ingredients
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.9 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
2 lbs Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 %
1.0 lb Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 7 2.9 %
1.0 lb DME

0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 27.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 4.8 IBUs

1.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 ml]

4.00 oz Oak spiral (Bourbon Soaked) (Secondary 14.0 days)
2.00 Vanilla Beans (Secondary to taste)
4.00 oz 160 proof oak infused corn whiskey (added with the oak)

BIAB full volume mash

mash temp 152F for 90 minutes

 

[JKaranka]

I wouldn't touch it! The bitterness will subside and the whole thing will come together in a month or two. It has attenuated a bit more than you'd expect but that will be fine. Remember that as it ages both the bitterness and the alcohol heat will reduce quite quickly. The Brown malt also takes a little while to come together.