Pale LME Really 1.25 Lovibond?

[derekp83]

I bought this today (it's being shipped) and I'm having a hard time believing its lovibond is as low as it says, 1.25.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Pale-LME-Liquid-Malt-Extract-Syrup--5-lb_p_7978.html
I've never seen LME lower than 2 or 3, and it was pilsen light.

Thoughts? Asking because I'm trying to figure out if I should add black patent to adjust color on a marzen.

 

[dmtaylor]

You are right to question this. 1.25 Lovibond LME is extremely unlikely. It's probably 3 at best, maybe even 4.

 

[VikeMan]

I bought this today (it's being shipped) and I'm having a hard time believing its lovibond is as low as it says, 1.25.

That would be quite an accomplishment, given that the amount of pilsner malt required to produce the extract would make a wort darker than the same volume and gravity of wort made from a "1.25L" extract. Bleach, I guess.

 

[derekp83]

That would be quite an accomplishment, given that the amount of pilsner malt required to produce the extract would make a wort darker than the same volume and gravity of wort made from a "1.25L" extract. Bleach, I guess.

Haha. Ya, as @dmtaylor said, it's probably 3 or 4 srm.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Thoughts?

The Q&A for the 1 lb & 7 lb products may be of interest.

 

[derekp83]

The Q&A for the 1 lb & 7 lb products may be of interest.

So it sounds like it's the Briess Pale Ale LME. That's 6 lovibond.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Yes, 6 lovibond at OG 30. see LME & DME—CBW® Brewer's Grade Malt Extracts, then follow the link to the product information sheet.

 

[VikeMan]

Yes, 6 lovibond at OG 30. see LME & DME—CBW® Brewer's Grade Malt Extracts, then follow the link to the product information sheet.

I just looked at the spec sheet. Clearly what Briess is showing there is wort/beer SRM, and not Ingredient Lovibond, which is (or should be) a constant, i.e. not dependent on wort/beer gravity. (Example: Crystal 40 malt has a lovibond of 40. That doesn't change just because you're going to use more or less of it, but the wort/beer SRM will.) The amount of the ingredient (which is proportional to gravity) will affect the SRM of the wort/beer, but the color contribution (per pound) of the ingredient itself doesn't change.

The problem is that folks often use "Lovibond" and "SRM" interchangeably. It's true that you can convert between the two when talking about beer color. But for ingredients, "SRM" really has no easily useful meaning. For a liquid ingredient, you can certainly measure SRM, based on a spectrophotometer reading using 430nm. But the result is not the same as the lovibond value needed by recipe SRM calculations, and it's not the same as what you'd get converting from SRM to Lovibond using the online calculators (which are ok for finished beer).

If anyone is interested, this was also discussed here, in a slightly different context:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/candi-syrup-colors-probably-not-what-you-think-they-are.677620/

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If anyone is interested,

I'll add it to my reading list. Thanks.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With OPs original question answered, this is as good a place as any to make a couple of (probably) final comments by me on DME & color

With regard to DME color, if one uses just the information that's often on the bag

it may be disappointing to find out that the beer doesn't come out "as expected" or "as estimated".

By using the information available in product information sheets, I found it wasn't hard to make a model for predicting color in extract-only recipes that was accurate enough for me to be useful when comparing to the actual beer. (I didn't extend the model to include steeping grains. I didn't compare the model to recipe software estimates). I don't get 4 SRM (or 4L) from a beer made with golden light DME, but I know what color I'll get. If I need a lighter color, I'll BIAB or use a Pilsen DME.