Opinions on homebrew competition circuit

[Darwin18]

It was actually another club's competition, but it is correct that there were 64 entries spread across 6 categories. This guy had 6 beers that medaled (in 3 categories). I don't know how many he actually entered but typically it is more than that (i.e., the "carpet bombing" strategy). Other people are placing , but for this particular competition, there were 3 different categories where this guy placed twice in the same category. I placed in one category, along with 2 entries from this guy. The judges were kind enough to give someone else an honorable mention, presumably because he would have medaled if this other brewer had not entered multiple (winning) beers in each category.

The easy fix here is to limit the entrant to one entry per category. In this case the entrant would only be able to enter six entries.

He had at least that many, but regardless, I don't see how that is relevant to whether or not a club deserves to be in the running. Are you saying that everyone needs to "carpet bomb"?

No, but I'm saying you have no leg to stand on here. You're annoyed that someone out of state is racking up points in your circuit's competition, but your club clearly isn't participating enough to justify your complaints. 64 entries in six categories average out to just over 10 entries per category. That's not just weak that's pathetic. I've judged enough competitions to know that a good half of the flight is usually going to score below a 30. This guy just needs to beat out two or three other entries to place. That's really not that difficult especially if he has multiple entries in that 10 entry flight.

If you want to win and you want your club to win your guys all need to step it up. Only having four or five of your club's members actually participate in the competition and then complain that someone else did better stinks of sour grapes. I'm not saying carpet bombing is the best strategy here, but at such a tiny competition there's really no excuse that this guy would have at least 10% of the overall entries. That's just a failure on your club's part. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but just pointing what your club needs to do to be more competitive.

 

[unionrdr]

Placing at the NHC tells me he's good at that level, but gaining a ton of wins in more local comps for his own ego trip.

 

[douglasbarbin]

64 entries in six categories average out to just over 10 entries per category. That's not just weak that's pathetic. I've judged enough competitions to know that a good half of the flight is usually going to score below a 30. This guy just needs to beat out two or three other entries to place. That's really not that difficult especially if he has multiple entries in that 10 entry flight.

The homebrew scene here isn't particularly large, and I would say that 60-something entries is probably pretty typical for most of our competitions. Most people only enter 1 or 2 beers per competition. It works out alright because we also have a limited pool of BJCP judges, and the non-BJCP guys can sometimes give back some questionable scoresheets (for example, on a beer I entered recently, the non-BJCP judge scored it 10 points lower than the BJCP-certified judge before the scores were amended to reduce the discrepancy).

I think that participation was higher at the beginning of the year (which was also the start of the circuit), but has dropped off somewhat since then. I don't know if it's apathy or if folks think that they are too far behind to catch up, but it would be nice to have a little more participation.

If you want to win and you want your club to win your guys all need to step it up. Only having four or five of your club's members actually participate in the competition and then complain that someone else did better stinks of sour grapes. I'm not saying carpet bombing is the best strategy here, but at such a tiny competition there's really no excuse that this guy would have at least 10% of the overall entries. That's just a failure on your club's part. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but just pointing what your club needs to do to be more competitive.

You do have some valid points. What would have been enough to win in previous years is apparently not good enough any more, due to the addition of this new competitor. If everyone gets better as a result, then it can't be a bad thing entirely.

 

[TobyG]

Amusingly, I found this thread searching for "homebrew state circuit" on Google.

If you're going that route, go with Jamil and Gordon, the champions of the "NHC Carpet Bomb" strategy.

Actually, I (jokingly) suggested I give Schoppe a call several times. Our club (like his home club) doesn't have any membership dues or rolls, so we would be a great fit. lol After all, Gordon and Jamil don't compete at NHC anymore.

 

[Gavin C]

Seems more common than I would have thought. A recent comp I placed in in SC was a "juggernaut" as one fellow entrant described it, of two prolific medalists. They must have entered 20+ beers between them at least.

One medal winning beer was titled. I don't like it but I have to or something like that. Seems very much aganst the spirit of things. Not against the rules though.

However this practice does appear to be par for the course in TX and SC competitions.

 

[imasickboy]

The person in question competes as a member of a Louisiana club and at least one other club in a different state, although he is listed under the current membership for neither club.

If the rule states that he must be a member of a LA club, or a resident of LA, and he obviously lives out of state, and is not listed as a member of a LA club, he is obviously not able to compete for the LA brewer of the year.

It's seems pretty straightforward to me. This person, who should be welcome to enter into the competitions, should be ineligible to win the overall award, no matter how far ahead of the competition he is.

 

[TobyG]

It's seems pretty straightforward to me. This person, who should be welcome to enter into the competitions, should be ineligible to win the overall award, no matter how far ahead of the competition he is.

The real issue is that the guys 'in charge' of the circuit for the first year also happened to belong to the same club. The second anyone started questioning anything, they are the first one to throw out the 'sour grapes' argument or 'it's too late to change the rules' when they set the rules before recruiting other clubs to set up competitions for or join their existing competitions to the circuit. Ultimately, nothing will change for 2015 since it's already awarded. My personal concern throughout the whole thing was always the potential for killing the enthusiasm for the circuit before it even got off the ground. A lot of the guys from the clubs at the beginning of the circuit stopped bothering to enter anything in the later events. 2016 is just around the corner, though.

 

[madcowbrewing]

I agree the rules have to be explicit. I am a member of a CA club and was a member as it started to get off the ground (under 10 members). But now that I am in OR, I don't attend meetings but I am active on the forum. The competition that is local to them is the county fair and I am no longer eligible to compete as one of the rules states that the entry must have been brewed in CA. That may be an option for future rules. Especially for the individual award.

 

[CGVT]

I looked at the circuits and saw the brewer you all are talking about. He enters a lot of comps in both states and enters under both clubs, probably picking what is most beneficial. It looks as if he enters a lot of beers and takes a lot of seconds and thirds in categories with just a few entries as well as quite a few firsts. He definitely dominates both circuits.

I think that they should look at amending the rules as far as the LA circuit goes. Doesn't quite seem fair that an out of state brewer would be eligible for the circuit awards.

Of course, he is obviously brewing very good beer to do as well as he is doing and even if he wasn't eligible for the Home Brewer of the Year, he would still most likely be dominating the awards in the local comps if he chose to enter.

Edited to add: With the number of entries he submits, he is also contributing a pretty good amount of $$ to the smaller comps. They may not want to discourage his entries...

 

[beerfactory]

Compromise and allow out of state/club member competitors at individual events while reserving the aggregate LA Homebrewer of the Year award for a state resident.

 

[jwalk4]

So the individual brews good beer. They also brew a lot of beer.

1. He/She brews the best beer in his/her state.
2. He/She brews the best beer in neighboring states.
3. He/She brews the best beer in your state.

Sounds like they deserve the title of "Brewer of the Year," for whatever that's worth.

 

[TobyG]

I looked at the circuits and saw the brewer you all are talking about. He enters a lot of comps in both states and enters under both clubs, probably picking what is most beneficial.

Where most beneficial equals only enters LA comps in the LA club.

It looks as if he enters a lot of beers and takes a lot of seconds and thirds in categories with just a few entries as well as quite a few firsts. He definitely dominates both circuits.

He is the definition of a shotgunner. I've judged his beers (and meads) in both circuits. He makes very good beer and is practically guaranteed to at least place in a fair number of categories just by virtue of percentages.

Edited to add: With the number of entries he submits, he is also contributing a pretty good amount of $$ to the smaller comps. They may not want to discourage his entries...

The only rule change(s) proposed so far were to either only limit the LA Homebrewer of the Year to a state resident, or to rename the title to the circuit homebrewer of the year to make it obvious. No rule was ever proposed to prevent him or anyone else from entering (even though a couple people wanted to try to paint it that way).

Ultimately, I think it may backfire in the long run because now I'm going to propose an actual committee to run the circuit and set rules. One representative from each comp with one vote and hopefully tone down any controversies.

 

[CGVT]

I wasn't saying to not allow him to enter but if he can't win the big prize he may be less inclined to enter comps that are not in his state which would cut back on the money coming in.

It seems reasonable to me that to be named the LA Home Brewer of the year, you should be an actual LA home brewer

Good luck with getting it under control.

Make sure you let us know how it shakes out.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Well... This thread certainly has picked up steam again.

 

[TriColor 1824]

I'm not sure what to make of this situation as I can understand both sides of the argument for and against this homebrewer. What I find really perplexing is why this individual continues to enter these competitions. Unless there is some monetary gain to be had or the need to continuously stoke a pathological degree of low self esteem by "beating up" on the competition, what is the point? I would think at some point he would get tired of winning so easily and stop entering these competitions; but then again, this is coming from the perspective of a reasonably well adjusted individual.

 

[TobyG]

It's all Google's fault.

 

[Gavin C]

The other side of the coin from a competitor's standpoint is that if you do get a medal competing against big hitters it is nice to know the competition was solid.

Hadn't looked at the financial side of things. Definitely important. If someone does want to enter 20 beers in a circuit competition it's going to be very hard for organizers to change the rules and say no to that.

This years state circuit in TX was all but wrapped up after the first two events. I could see folks being discouraged from entering later events. The biggest event is the first one of the year though so I guess it's not hugely surprising this attracts the most entries from these excellent brewers.

 

[beernutz]

It took about 30 seconds to find the name of the brewer in question and then an hour to read all his competition results. I tip my hat, his record is muy impressve.

 

[TobyG]

Lone Star is a little different since it's a circuit of comps that were already well established for the most part. Some of us created comps specifically to fill out the Bayou State Circuit. Most of the guys who are competitive on the Lone Star Circuit are still going to enter regardless. Our circuit is handicapped by access to judges. Most of the guys who could take on all comers are also judges. There's a part of me that wants to completely give up judging in our circuit next year and return shotgun fire. lol

 

[Gavin C]

Lone Star is a little different since it's a circuit of comps that were already well established for the most part. Some of us created comps specifically to fill out the Bayou State Circuit. Most of the guys who are competitive on the Lone Star Circuit are still going to enter regardless. Our circuit is handicapped by access to judges. Most of the guys who could take on all comers are also judges. There's a part of me that wants to completely give up judging in our circuit next year and return shotgun fire. lol

Do it man. Both barrels.

 

[TobyG]

Do it man. Both barrels.

My only compunction is that a lot of these comps would really struggle with judging if I did that. My only serious entry this year was the very first comp and I took 1st runner up BOS. After that, everything I entered was the occasional experimental brew because I didn't want to exclude myself from judging many categories since we're still relatively handicapped on judging (there are probably more certified judges in Houston than we have in the entire state).

 

[Gavin C]

My only compunction is that a lot of these comps would really struggle with judging if I did that. My only serious entry this year was the very first comp and I took 1st runner up BOS. After that, everything I entered was the occasional experimental brew because I didn't want to exclude myself from judging many categories since we're still relatively handicapped on judging (there are probably more certified judges in Houston than we have in the entire state).

That is a very laudable rationale you give for holstering your sidearms.

Congrats on the 2nd BOS. I hope one day to place in a BOS.

Just as an aside if your interested. Look at the results from this recent completion in South Carolina. It seems they have similar brewers there. Two massively successful individuals. 34 medals between them in a single competition.

 

[TobyG]

Congrats on the 2nd BOS. I hope one day to place in a BOS.

I've hit one of my goals already this year by placing at MCAB. Next year, I plan to focus on NHC (made it to finals last year, but was up against a lot of competition since over 90 percent of the entries were in the same subcategory).

Just as an aside if your interested. Look at the results from this recent completion in South Carolina. It seems they have similar brewers there. Two massively successful individuals. 34 medals between them in a single competition.

There are a few guys like that in Lone Star that will vary from comp to comp. I know several of them. Schoppe is always in the mix when he decides to dedicate himself. This year, he was really strategic about where he entered and focused on styles that were exploitable. It was really interesting to discuss and think about if you're into competitions for competitions' sake.

 

[Gavin C]

I've hit one of my goals already this year by placing at MCAB. Next year, I plan to focus on NHC (made it to finals last year, but was up against a lot of competition since over 90 percent of the entries were in the same subcategory).



There are a few guys like that in Lone Star that will vary from comp to comp. I know several of them. Schoppe is always in the mix when he decides to dedicate himself. This year, he was really strategic about where he entered and focused on styles that were exploitable. It was really interesting to discuss and think about if you're into competitions for competitions' sake.

I'd say it was great to pick the brains of the likes of Schoppe. Never met the guy but by all accounts he is a solid bloke.

I'm tying to enter some beers in this years blue bonnet comp in TX and the NHC. Going to enter some of the less popular categories. Fortunately I enjoy making and drinking many of those styles so hopefully I can stack the deck in my favor.

I am but a competition minnow however having entered 3 comps thus far. Big mountain to climb if one of those cool Blue Bonnet mugs is to grace my house. (Hidden away somewhere, the SWMBO wouldn't have it, LOL)

 

[TobyG]

Hit me up offline if you want some outside input. I usually judge the Houston area stuff and don't enter much these days, but I have entered a thing or two on occasion. My liter mug from Dixie Cup 1995 is one of my personal favorites.