Making cheese from kefir itself - a question.

[bernardsmith]

Over some weeks I have "saved" some kefir (from my kefir grains) and I am planning on removing much of the whey and forming the kefir into a cheese. My question: given the fact that the curds are quite distinct does it make any sense to add a coagluant (rennet) to further coagulate the curds if my goal is to press these curds and form a hard cheese or should I simply but slowly put these curds under increasing pressure to get them to mat without any rennet? Anyone try this? Have not taken a pH reading but my sense is that it is about 4.8 or even lower.

 

[Kent88]

So is it almost the consistency of yogurt now?

Edit: you probably don't need rennet, just put pressure on it.

 

[bernardsmith]

Easily the consistency of yogurt. The pH is about 4.7

 

[bpgreen]

Are you trying to make cheese from the grains or the kefir?

If you're doing it from the kefir, you'd want to strain it using cheesecloth, probably layered. You would probably end up with a very soft cheese, like a labneh. I've made labneh, but I can't remember if I made it from kefir or yogurt.

I'm not sure how this go about it using the grains. It would take time to accumulate enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[FatDragon]

I might need to try something like this. I started making kefir a few weeks ago and I'm on the verge of giving up because I'm not getting a yogurt-like drink, just sour curds and clear whey, even if I refrigerate within six hours of adding the milk (they continue to separate in the fridge, though I don't know if they're fermenting or not). Presumably I'd want to add non-iodized salt if I were to press it into a cheese?

 

[bernardsmith]

@bpgreen: I am making this cheese from the curds that the kefir grains produced. I strained the curds through cheese cloth and then put the curds under a couple of pounds of pressure over night. This morning they were still very soft so I sprinkled some salt have added another 8 pounds of pressure. Will see what the cheese looks /feels like tonight.
@FatDragon: How large is your kefir grain mass? There is some relationship between the mass of the grains and the volume of milk it can culture. Assuming that you are not trying to culture too much milk with too small a SCOBY (or too little milk for too large a mass) you want to shake the container a couple of times or more over the 24-48 hours you are "ripening" the milk and you want the temperature to be more warm than cool. My kefir (the drink) separates curds from whey after 24-36 hours and at that point I add the grains to another batch of milk (about 1 large cup). But you say your kefir is ripe at 6 hours... I wonder if yours is a true kefir SCOBY (Symbyotic Culture of Bacteria and Yeast) )...

 

[FatDragon]

@FatDragon: How large is your kefir grain mass? There is some relationship between the mass of the grains and the volume of milk it can culture. Assuming that you are not trying to culture too much milk with too small a SCOBY (or too little milk for too large a mass) you want to shake the container a couple of times or more over the 24-48 hours you are "ripening" the milk and you want the temperature to be more warm than cool. My kefir (the drink) separates curds from whey after 24-36 hours and at that point I add the grains to another batch of milk (about 1 large cup). But you say your kefir is ripe at 6 hours... I wonder if yours is a true kefir SCOBY (Symbyotic Culture of Bacteria and Yeast) )...

I've got about a dozen "grains" each about the size of a popcorn kernel that started to pop but never got all the way there. I've tried different amounts of milk, but the one batch that came out the best was about half a liter - or two cups - of fresh whole milk, added cold to the culture and left for maybe 12-15 hours (but during cooler weather than many of the hyperactive attempts) on top of the fridge. Using less milk has resulted in those six hour milk-to-curds and whey turnaround times. Using half a liter takes more like 12-18 hours to separate, but I can't seem to get it to stop between the watery liquid stage and the curds and whey stage; refrigeration doesn't stop it or even appreciably slow it down, as I've tossed batches that seemed to be in the sweet spot in the fridge at 4 degrees C only to find curds and whey a couple hours later.

The provenance of my kefir grains is somewhat suspect as I bought them from an online retailer here in China, but they look like kefir grains, they culture milk and create a sour flavor (and the resulting concoction has not made me sick), and the kombucha scoby I bought from the same shop at the same time (It's a large and well-reviewed vendor that sells thousands of cultures monthly and both were separately double-bagged and sealed so the odds of cross-contamination are low, and I keep them and their equipment separate at all times) has been excellent, so if they're not proper kefir grains, they're at least something similar.

Keep us up with news on your kefir cheese. That's probably my best bet to make anything worthwhile of this kefir experiment and I'd definitely appreciate having a path to follow.

 

[bernardsmith]

Despite draining, salting and pressing the curds (overnight - 2lbs , and then another 8 hours or so under 8 lbs) the cheese is soft - but quite delightful. I think with my next batch I will add some vegetable rennet and then raise the temperature of the curds to about 110 and "cheddar" the resulting curds to see if I can get a firmer texture (like Squeaky Curd Cheese (SCC)). Used 1 cup of the whey from this batch of cheese to add to a gallon of milk to make SCC last night and used the whey from the SCC for a batch of mead (honey wine) I am making tonight - a variation on an Ethiopian recipe for t'ej.

 

[Owly055]

Despite draining, salting and pressing the curds (overnight - 2lbs , and then another 8 hours or so under 8 lbs) the cheese is soft - but quite delightful. I think with my next batch I will add some vegetable rennet and then raise the temperature of the curds to about 110 and "cheddar" the resulting curds to see if I can get a firmer texture (like Squeaky Curd Cheese (SCC)). Used 1 cup of the whey from this batch of cheese to add to a gallon of milk to make SCC last night and used the whey from the SCC for a batch of mead (honey wine) I am making tonight - a variation on an Ethiopian recipe for t'ej.

I've been mostly using kefir for the innoculant in cheese. I've added normal amounts of rennet, and extremely small amounts of rennet. The best results have been with normal amount of rennet. I've also "cooked" the curd as you describe , all with varying results. The best results have been with normal amounts of rennet.
Kefir is an extremely aggressive culture, at least mine is. In the consolidation, and whey draining phase, the cheese becomes sharp very quickly. I'm going to experiment with using a procedure as is done with Swiss cheese next time. Removing 1/3 to 1/2 the whey, and replacing it with hot water to gradually bring the temp up to 110 or so. This supposedly results in slower souring during the aging phase. I like sour, but I also like to have control of the results.

H.W.

 

[bernardsmith]

But I wonder if there may be some confusion here. I typically use the "kefir" I make from the grains as the culture I use as the culture inoculant for all my cheeses. But that is not kefir cheese - this might be feta cheese or cheddar or Caerphilly or blue cheese. What I was talking about is taking the pints of "kefir" (the soured milk) I have stored over a few weeks and transforming those curds into cheese. The pH is about 4.0 (or even lower) , No heating, no cutting. Simply draining and pressing. And THAT - in my opinion - does not seem to create a firm cheese. My plan is for the next batch to add rennet and see if that will further coagulate the curds and so allow them to knit tighter when pressed

 

[bernardsmith]

Resuscitating this thread. Some really good news here but a note regarding the backs story. I make hard and soft cheese after culturing the milk with kefir that I make from kefir grains. I typically use kefir that is about 24 hours old but that means I have a scant gallon of leftover kefir every two or three weeks. What to do with the leftover kefir? The question I raised about a year ago was if anyone knew if it was possible to make a hard cheese using such kefir. My initial experiments were not successful: I could not get the curds to form into a single "hard" cheese. I pressed the curds and I even tried adding rennet and pressure. The cheese was still very soft and or very crumbly. Then I upped the pressure and the amount of time under pressure - about 50 lbs for 48 hours and voila! the leftover kefir makes a delicious if slightly crumbly cheese. I have been adding garlic powder and /or onion powder of herbs (and salt, of course) and it is good.
So here's the scoop: no waste now from the leftover kefir and no waste from the whey leftover from the cheese making as I have been making a version of blaand from the sweet whey: I boil the whey to kill the bacteria and halt the souring but for a more sour drink you don't even have to boil the whey, and then add fermentable sugars (table sugar, dry malt extract, honey, or fruit), add (pitch) yeast and I have a whey wine or beer after a few weeks. I might add hops (DME) or oak cubes but the effort is zero and the outcome is tasty.