Kegco 3 Roller passive roller spins about 7/8, stops.

[Gadjobrinus]

First off, I apologize to the many people who have kindly written some nice and very thorough posts to some queries I have. I owe you all replies and I am sorry - kind of a difficult week but I will get back and thank you again.

I am finally putting my mill together, building the base. I need to get some wood planed down by my luthier friend - I found after first attempting with some microscopically warped 2 x 10, then very straight 2 x 6, that I need 1 1/4" and not 1 1/2" under the mill, once the motor is well-seated.

Which has given me plenty of opportunity to look at the underside of the mill. I've had to admit the truth, and that is that the center, passive roller only goes about 3/4-7/8 of the way and then stops. Not a "terrible" or "hard" stop, but it's definitely not spinning totally freely.

I've been loathe to have to take the hopper off to adjust again, but is that what I have to do? Can anyone diagnose the problem, and advise? Is this a problem where the adjustment rollers on either side were adjusted out of sync, or is this that the base itself is somehow askew, or too tight somehow?

Thanks for any help. Obtained a chop saw, flux-core/mig, angle grinder from my builder friend, and will be getting at the frame this weekend.

Oh, stupid question - when you have stainless steel little parts (pump mounts, heat shield), and you're painting the frame for as good a heat resistance as you can get, do you paint it first then weld this ss pieces on? Or mask the ss pieces? I only ask as I don't think you can weld on a painted surface, and when I look at mild frames with these pieces on this site, I can't tell how it's done as they look perfect (I know, dumb question).

 

[Stealthcruiser]

"Roller binds"........When the mill is bolted down, or not bolted down?

Weld, wire brush the welds, if needed, mask.

"You think long, you think wrong"......

 

[ancientmariner52]

What sort of bearings do the rollers have? Dirt in a ball or roller bearing can cause what you describe. So could debris between the roller end and frame.

Did the frame sit on the base without rocking? If yes, then evenly tightened bolts would not cause distortion. If no, bolts would definitely cause distortion. As far as the hopper goes, I would take it off and leave it off until everything else is mounted and working well. At this point, it is just in your way.

You are correct, you can't get a good weld through paint. In addition, you are going to want to paint the welds themselves. So, weld, grind, mask, paint, in that order. A tip from the street rod world: aluminum foil is great for masking wires, hoses, pipes, or anything odd shaped that is too much trouble to remove.

The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask in time.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks guys. It's without the base mounted, but it's very light - I don't know how long it's supposed to roll. 2 out of 3 roll for several seconds, this one, like I said, "almost" without stopping hard, etc. I hear you, ancient, on removing the hopper. I've got it all hooked up (to motor, with coupler), and it runs really smoothly but I understand that means nothing, if there's even the slightest binding or particle/obstacle.

Thanks as well guys on the welding. I started cutting today and the only thing disappointing, I found, was a very mild bias with the abrasive wheel, if I pushed at all too much and tried to force it. Never used an abrasive wheel before so now I know. Fits are actually good, after filing, and the only true bias is on an open end that doesn't join anything, so I might leave it, though doing so bugs me. I'm cutting everything else till I get to that metal, and if I can switch to another member and salvage this piece for another cut, great. I'm used to a wood chop saw, lol.

You think long, you think wrong

Stealth, that is a perfect line......that even I can understand, lol. Got it.....hahahahahha.

Edit: Sorry ancient, missed your first line. Not sure if this is what you're asking but the bearings are stainless. I'll blow out the whole thing and hopefully that makes it go away. If not, I'll pull the hopper off and begin again, well taken point.

 

[day_trippr]

I think I mentioned that you must let the disc do the work. Keep the rpms up and they do well, bear down and the disc can deform...

Cheers!

 

[ancientmariner52]

Not doubting your word, but bearings, or in this case bushings, are not made of stainless steel. They just aren't.

I checked Kegco's website. The bushings are of 841 sintered bronze, an excellent choice. The bushings are porous, designed to hold lubricant. A drop or two of light oil on each bushing might free things up.

You mentioned a coupling between motor and mill. I'm assuming this is a flexible coupling, Lovejoy or similar?

 

[Konadog]

I thought the Kegco mills had bearings, and that the web site hasen't been updated yet to reflect that. Even if they are bearings, they won't be SS.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I think I mentioned that you must let the disc do the work. Keep the rpms up and they do well, bear down and the disc can deform...

Cheers!

Er, um, yep, you did. I just have never seen sparks fly (I hand cut my first rig those many years ago - seriously), and have never felt what it feels like to cut steel. I now know, hahahahha. I don't think it's too bad - though because my first job was, well, my first, and it was horrible welding, I hope I'm not merely repeating mistakes and accepting intolerable gap. Trying to file carefully and fit as tightly as I can. Today might have been a learning experience, and I have a lot of.....scrap to practice on, lol. I hope not!

OK, one thing that's probably definitely going to have to be cut down for another member. One my front horizontal member, one of 3 members with miter, I'm not sure how it happened but I nicked inside the cut, and - this is weird - it slipped or something, so now there's a strong bevel, a dip in the shape of the wheel, beveling strongly, especially at the center, towards the cut. What I mean to say, is the metal in that small portion is considerably thinner. With 4 sides to the tubing, is this doable, if I take care in welding over this area? Or is this definitely a no-no and I should cut the miters off and use the beam for another part (just want to make sure I have enough metal. I can always get more, though).

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Not doubting your word, but bearings, or in this case bushings, are not made of stainless steel. They just aren't.

I checked Kegco's website. The bushings are of 841 sintered bronze, an excellent choice. The bushings are porous, designed to hold lubricant. A drop or two of light oil on each bushing might free things up.

You mentioned a coupling between motor and mill. I'm assuming this is a flexible coupling, Lovejoy or similar?

ancient,

Well now I'm pretty pissed. Here is what the Bev Factory rep (who also answers answers on the Kegco on Amazon) said to me in an e-mail:

"I am the person responding to the amazon questions and I have confirmed that the mills do not have the bronze bushings, they have SS ball bearings. Please let me know if you have any more product related questions."

WTH?

Edit: On the coupling, yep, Lovejoy. 3/4" for the motor, 12 mm for the Kegco. Keyed on the motor side, unfortunately not so on the mill side. Took a lot of time to make sure the base was right height and squared (my genius luthier friend knocked it out in his shop, while we chatted), and that the coupling is right on. As I mentioned, I'm not picking up any issues when it's on, but then again I don't want to just wear down a passive roller ignorantly.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Gotcha. Design change hasn't made it to the website. Don't panic. SS would make poor bushings, but hardened SS makes excellent ball bearings.
Sorry for the confusion.

And your choice in couplers is impeccable.

Not keying the mill side is probably a good thing. If anything binds up, you want a failure point that does the least amount of damage. Sort of a mechanical fuse.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Gotcha. Design change hasn't made it to the website. Don't panic. SS would make poor bushings, but hardened SS makes excellent ball bearings.
Sorry for the confusion.

And your choice in couplers is impeccable.

Not keying the mill side is probably a good thing. If anything binds up, you want a failure point that does the least amount of damage. Sort of a mechanical fuse.

Awesome, thanks ancient. On the keyless thing, that's fascinating, would never have known that. Very interesting info - many thanks.

 

[ancientmariner52]

You are most welcome.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Put that mill together, Brother, and roll with it!

All the research you did on them, and then buy a Chinese knock off, and then be concerned about a roller that may not be drilled exactly concentric, ( if it pretty much stops in the same spot each time?),it'll never know the difference once loaded with grain, and the motor switched on!.........


But do be careful, with the abrasive cutoff wheel, in regards to cutting too fast / deflecting the wheel, etc.....

They be ugly when they come apart!

And Mig welding can be very forgiving, in regards to gaps @ your joints........

Don't make a career out of this!.........

 

[Gadjobrinus]

OK, what this obsessive needed to hear, brother. I'd though MIG gave idiots such as myself a bit of forgiveness.....so, I hope I'm forgiven 'cuz I want to brew!

Thanks again Stealth. Big help as always!

 

[wilserbrewer]

When the side plates are fastened to the end plates of the mill, the holes are slightly oversized. The side plates need to be fastened such that there is a little clearance between the end plates and the rollers. If the end plates are installed ever so slightly tight to the rollers a roller can bind.

To be sure I believe I left about a 1/16" clearance b/w the rollers and mill end plates when tightening the side plates.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

When the side plates are fastened to the end plates of the mill, the holes are slightly oversized. The side plates need to be fastened such that there is a little clearance between the end plates and the rollers. If the end plates are installed ever so slightly tight to the rollers a roller can bind.

To be sure I believe I left about a 1/16" clearance b/w the rollers and mill end plates when tightening the side plates.

When you did this, did you shim between the side plates, and the end plates, so that when all tightened down, it would maintain such?

 

[wilserbrewer]

No, I'm not that AR lol

I just made a conscious effort not to pinch the rollers with the end blocks.

I just went and checked the mill, if I push on the rollers center pin from outside the mill it slightly clunks back and forth between the end blocks, hence no binding.

 

[augiedoggy]

I had this issue on my cereal killer before I figured out in my case as in many, was because the roller adjustment markings are not perfect and my roller was basically not adjusted to be completely parallel with the other rollers... This is an easy fix with a feeler gauge or credit card which is the recommended best way to adjust them anyway and spinning the roller while adjusting to make sure its adjusted right..
Once its adjusted theres little legit reason to keep playing with it.. I havent touched my mill gap in a long time myself.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not doubting your word, but bearings, or in this case bushings, are not made of stainless steel. They just aren't.

I checked Kegco's website. The bushings are of 841 sintered bronze, an excellent choice. The bushings are porous, designed to hold lubricant. A drop or two of light oil on each bushing might free things up.

You mentioned a coupling between motor and mill. I'm assuming this is a flexible coupling, Lovejoy or similar?

kegcos site is incorrect.. they just stole the description from monster mill. (I can confirm this as I own one and have assembled it) . The kegco does use the same ball bearing as they use on the cereal killer which are advertised there. (also made by the same company and same mill as the 2 roller kegco and kegking) there are no bushings like the MM uses. This is why in my opinion its superior to the basic MM since to get the comparible MM with the bearing upgrade you have to spend $600 vs $150 but that horse has been beat to death in two other threads.
I only mentioned it because of stealtcruisers biased chinese knockoff comment which will take this thread off that same course as the others. Of cousre if I was from the same hometown as MM and knew some of the employees Id probably make the same type of comment so I dont fault him for that, And its true, it really is close to being a complete chinese knockoff of the MM except it has the bearings instead of bushings.(Big difference IMO) Most of the parts are completely interchangable between the two so they obviously used the MM to copy specs from.

The ironic thing is if you were to hand both mills to a machinist or fabricator and they did not know which is which, and ask which one likely cost more and is the better engineered mill, I'm willing to bet most if not all would all choose the kegco.

If you look at the photo here you can see that bearings are used (the kegco mill is also marketed as the maltmuncher)
https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-muncher-3-roller-grain-mill.html

As well as other like this.

https://www.longislandhomebrew.com/product/alfreds-grain-mill-3-roll/?v=920f83e594a1

(with a higher price of course)



They also sell the same mill in the maltmucher box
https://www.longislandhomebrew.com/product/maltmuncher-3-roll-grain-mill/?v=920f83e594a1
Notice no mention of bushings..

This is a common issue with this type of mill regardless of who made it... yIf you do a search here on other mills with the same cam adjustments like the barley crusher youll see a lot of complaints from new owners who usually figured out what the issue was. The roller was binding against the side

EDIT apprently something is different here when trying to copy and paste links with the new site... if you manually copy and paste the middle link it will work.