How to handle infection???

[cimirie]

So, while I was doing sour fruit ale, I went from primary to secondary where I placed the peaches. After a month, I transferred from secondary to tertiary to clear it. While in tertiary, a thin white-ish pellicle formed. I assumed infection, and after some mixed feedback here, that's what I believed it to be. But, I used a sanitized "skimmer," got rid of the pellicle and it never came back.

Flash forward to two weeks later, I bottled it.

Now, one week after bottling, the same pellicle has appeared in each and every bottle.

OK, so this has got to be an infection - duh. But the mantra I've heard since I started brewing is that "time heals all wounds." I don't mind if it's sour. But what I do mind is when bottles start exploding. So, the two philosophies seem to be at odds with each other: let it sit in the bottles and get better with time - unless of course they explode OR dump it it's ruined.

I spent months planning this beer, months more making it and I'll be damned if I want to kill it. But I'm also not a fan of shrapnel all over my closet.

Help!!!

FWIW, I bottled this 6 gallon batch with roughly 3 pounds of lactose. Would that play a part in this?

 

[beerocd]

If you can keep it all cold - you shouldn't get explosions. So long as the pellicle looks the same all over it will probably be safe. If you have spots, especially different colored ones or some fuzz like mold - probably dump.

-OCD

 

[cimirie]

UPDATE:

So, I put two bottles in the fridge (to cool for a "taste test") and the weirdest thing happened... The pellicle disappeared. Don't know what that means, but I thought I'd share.

beerocd - can't keep the bottles cold. I've got about 70 and only one fridge. SWMBO loves beer, but likes food more. They've only been conditioning for a week (still not carbed - no big suprise there). At what point should I be concerned or should I start "testing" for overcarbination (ie grenades)?

 

[beerocd]

No basements in Orlando either, eh? I guess you need to open a warm one and see if you really have a pellicle in the bottle or not. For it to continue to grow I believe it would need oxygen. And I'm guessing here now, but when you moved it to chill it, it may have fallen to the bottom and maybe just looks like yeast sediment now. Since you've got 70 to test with, pop one open, shake up another one - wait a bit then open it and check, carefully move another to chill without disturbing the pellicle.
Transfer a couple of them to plastic pop bottles for you to gauge if they are overcarbing. You can avoid drinking your beers too young this way. Keep them in boxes or totes just for safety anyway.

-OCD

 

[cimirie]

beerocd - with regard to my chilling of the beer... my guess is your theory is exactly what happend. The pellicle was disturbed and it fell to the bottom looking like yeast sediment. GREAT idea on the pop bottle transfer. I'll really be able to gauge things well there. I'll do that this evening! Thanks for the help.

 

[Revvy]

UPDATE:

So, I put two bottles in the fridge (to cool for a "taste test") and the weirdest thing happened... The pellicle disappeared.

In the bottle it probably wasn't a pellicule, it was a bottle krausen. It more than likely just a coincidence that you saw them on those particualr bottles...

Carbing beer is similiar to fermentation in a fermenter...Yeast eats sugars and processes co2 and alchohol....Since ale yeasts are top fermenting, it works just like in your fermenter...Krauzens often get formed and then fall through to the bottom during the 3 week process... Some yeasts are more apt to do it more dramatically than others...and priming with dme sometimes makes it noticeable...

I actually have a theory that it happens all the time, but since a lot of us just stick our bottles in a box, in a dark place and forget about them for 3 or more weeks, (instead of staring at them obsesively), we never notice it occuring.

I actually finally saw one, but didn't have a cam to shoot it. I had bottled my saison, and I had a couple of these Italian Lemon bottles

And I had put those two in the cupboard above my fridge, the morning after I bottled the two that were in those, both had krauzen on top...and 8 hours later they had fallen and become the sediment layer at the bottom.

 

[cimirie]

Revvy -
Why don't you believe that in the bottle, it wouldn't be a pellicle? Is there something about the environment of a bottle that would inhibit pellicle formation?

Is it standard for a brew in which an infection occurs in the fermentor, to not have additional problems in the bottle?

Sorry for asking so many questions on this. I've never had an infection before so I'm trying to learn as much as I can to diagnose and deal with it better next time (if that horrible occurance should happen to occur again )

Thanks!

 

[Revvy]

Revvy -
Why don't you believe that in the bottle, it wouldn't be a pellicle? Is there something about the environment of a bottle that would inhibit pellicle formation?

Is it standard for a brew in which an infection occurs in the fermentor, to not have additional problems in the bottle?

Sorry for asking so many questions on this. I've never had an infection before so I'm trying to learn as much as I can to diagnose and deal with it better next time (if that horrible occurance should happen to occur again )

Thanks!

Simple...it went away, actually it didn't go away it, it dropped ....pellicules are thicker than bottle krausens, they are like skins, and they sit on top of a fermenter protecting the beer (believe it or not) from oxygen and other things, and they wouldn't just "vanish."

You racked under you pellicule when you bottled, right? Basically the skin rode on top of the beer as you siphoned it off, correct?

A krausen falls through the beer, and in the fermenter becomes trub, and in the bottle becomes the little tiny bit of yeast we are used to in the bottom of the bottle.

If they were still on top of the bottles, I would agree with you and say there were pellicule, but the whole fact that they vanished was a clue enough for me.

Now the fact that your beer was infected may have contributed to bottle krausen delvelopment, just like DME priming somehow makes bottle krausens more noticeable...But the mere fact that you saind they dissapeared led me to believe that they are krausens.

 

[beerocd]

Saison isn't (necessarily) a soured beer though, so you wouldn't have a pellicle Revvy. In your case your observations are probably spot on. But in the case of soured beer, I have a comparable situation to relay. Kombucha Tea, the souring organisms are very similar. Pellicle reforms in the final bottles too, because all the yeast and bacteria are floating in the drink and will come back together and re-form a small pellicle. But it cannot grow very large due to limited available oxygen, and will fall when disturbed or well chilled.

Ultimately I guess pictures from both cimirie and Revvy would be the best way to continue comparing what was and wasn't happening to the beer.

-OCD

 

[shortyjacobs]

With regards to the potential grenade issue, wrap your boxes in a heavy blanket or two. Won't stop the bottles from exploding, (if they do), but it will contain the mess and shrapnel.

Then wear one of these when you take them out to refrigerate them.