ingredient --> taste question

Short version -- generally what ingredient is creating what effect? What makes a beer citrusy or fruity? What makes it more bitter?

Long version --

I did an austin home brew falconer's flight ipa that was quite nice

description says "This IPA has a floral and citrus aroma and flavors of tropical fruit, lemons, and grapefruits" and that's true.

I'm curious which ingredient gives it the citrus/fruit aspect. The hops?

Specialty malts: Crystal 40L, torrified wheat
Featured hops: Falconer’s Flight
Extract - Liquid: 8 lb Liquid Malt Extract, 1 lb Dry Malt Extract, .5 lb Base Grains, 1.25 lb Specialty Grains

Or one of those other elements?

Similarly I've noticed I like bitter beers quite a bit.

My favorite beer I've made is a kit for "red ipa." Very bitter plus the hoppy element -- I ****ing love it!

Specialty malts: Caramunich®, Crystal 120L, Special B
Featured hops: Columbus, Cluster, Cascade
Extract - Liquid: 8 lb Liquid Malt Extract, .5 lb Base Grains, 1 lb Specialty Grains

What's bringing the above average bitterness to this beer?

Yes, the hops.

what is more citrusy,...falconers or citra? this is valuable info to us noobs....

cageybee said:

what is more citrusy,...falconers or citra? this is valuable info to us noobs....

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Citra doesn't taste citrusy to me- it's more "tropical" if that makes sense. Like mango. I made an all citra beer and it screamed MANGO at me. I didn't care for it much, so I dryhopped it with some cascade. Then it turned into "Juicy Fruit Gum" flavor.

I've only used falconer's flight twice. My impression was that it's tropical as well, but has a bit of citrus flavor to it with more of a "fruity" overtone. I like it, but probably won't buy it again unless I can't get unblended varieties.

Falconer's Flight is a blend of several northwest hops. Citra, Simcoe, Sorachi Ace, and some experimental hops. All three of the main hops could be described as having a "citrusy" flavor, from grapefruit, to mango, to lemon. I would think that since it's a blend, no one flavor dominates the other. The ale I brewed with it isn't finished yet, but the taste test didn't taste exactly tropical, just more citrusy sweet at the end with a nice bitterness at the front. Almost reminded me of oranges or lemons. I have not brewed with citra yet, but plan on giving the Zombie Dust clone a shot in the future (6.75 oz of citra in the boil, and additional 3 oz citra dry hopped for 10 days).

IMO I love simcoe and citra.

Theres a great graph in Jamil and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles on Hops. It breaks common hop varieties up and places them in particular areas on the chart based on pine/citrus/floral/bitter, etc. Lemme see if i can find and attach it.

Edit: Attached

That thread would be a great tool to use!

I meant graph

Pratzie said:

Theres a great graph in Jamil and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles on Hops. It breaks common hop varieties up and places them in particular areas on the chart based on pine/citrus/floral/bitter, etc. Lemme see if i can find and attach it.

Edit: Attached

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that graph! I will have to pickup a copy if that book

Moonlighter said:

Thanks for sharing that graph! I will have to pickup a copy if that book

Click to expand...

Palmer has a good write up on the common varieties in How To Brew. Its not a chart but a descriptive section. Check that out too, thats much more "how to"

yeah that chart is awesome.

what about overall bitterness level in a beer. is most flavor in beer coming from hops or do the malts and grains contribute the majority of bitterness?

JLivermore said:

yeah that chart is awesome.

what about overall bitterness level in a beer. is most flavor in beer coming from hops or do the malts and grains contribute the majority of bitterness?

Click to expand...

Hops add bitterness and flavor. Grains also add flavor and also what gives yeast sugars to eat up.

JLivermore said:

yeah that chart is awesome.

what about overall bitterness level in a beer. is most flavor in beer coming from hops or do the malts and grains contribute the majority of bitterness?

Click to expand...

Also packaged hops will have alpha acids on it and I think the higher it is the more bitter it will be. Also depends on your boiling schedule

So would it be safe to say that the hops in the middle of the circle have less distinguishable characteristics vs those that are towards the outer portion since the outer portion hops are very clearly in a category?

It will also depend on when the hops were added to the boil. The more hops added early in the hop schedule the more bitter it will be (measured in IBU). Hops that are added late will contribute to the floral/citrusy/tropical aromas and flavours you experience and will not affect the bitterness or IBU near as much. Subsequently more brews will add hops at the start and end of a boil so both bitterness and aroma/flavour is achieved. Finding the right balance for the particular style separates the good from the great brewer.

if u have an iphone, there's a bunch of free and paid apps u can download that will give u approx IBU bitterness based on the type of hop, AA% and boil time. I've used iBrewmaster to give a rough estimate since im not a hop head at all... I like to keep away from kits that are in excess of 35 IBU's

There was a beersmith pod cast with a hops expert (phd who studies and developes hops iirc). Anyhow he said that hops has 4 different volitales (flavors) in it. And that they come out at different temps. This is true of all hops to varrious degrees. At low temps (room and such) is grassy. Highest temps are bitterness and then in the middles (break points I think were like 130 and 170F but I'm not possitive) the middles were citrus and pine, or pine and citrus. I don't remember which order.

Anyhow some have more citrus or more pine, but they are in all hops at varying degrees.

And that pict is great (post3 or 4?)