First Keg All Foam??

He is my issue, I kegged my Hef last week, I didnt have time to read up much on kegging so I just looked at the Midwest Supply driections that came with my setup.

So I hooked up gas
purged the head space
set at 30psi
and put into my kegerator set at about 36 to 38 (according to thermometer recorder I put inside)

24 hours later I purged the keg, turned down to 10psi and pulled a sample, it was still under carbonated no foam at all.

I still had no time to read up on anything and was very busy so I left it at 10psi for 2 days before looking it, I then pulled another sample still flat no foam. So I went on and read a bit on info on kegging..

So now my beer was chilled, I cranked the PSI back up to 30psi and shook the hell out of the keg, 12 hours later before i was leaving for work I shook the hell out of it again, still at 30psi.

I got home from work 10-12 hours later or so, purged the gas, turned down to 10psi, and got 100% foam, kept turning down lower and lower and once I got to about 3psi then I was getting about 50/50 foam beer.

The beer in the line is clear and foam free.

My issue is I burned my tongue a day or two ago so my tasters are all screwed up, I can not tell if the beer is over carbonated or just right at this point, I can see bubbles in the glass, but it looks to be much less than your typical beer.

Thoughts or ideas?

Oh beer lines are what came with kit, your typical 5' line.

Being my first ever home brew, infection is a scary thought in the back of my mind, as I had fermentation issues with this beer. I ended up pitching bad yeast and having to re pitch 4 days later after ZERO activity.

Sounds like you overcarbed it. Anytime you're going to be shaking it to burst carb, you need to do it at serving pressure, i.e., 10-12 psi. Shaking it at 30 psi is a surefire way to overcarb your brew.

Most of us are using 10-12' of 3/16 ID line.

Might be over carbed. That's why I prefer the "low and slow" method (set the regulator at serving pressure and leave it alone for 2 weeks). It takes longer but pretty much guarantees perfect carbonation. You did the "crank and shake" method, which can work but can also be unpredictable. I'd purge the keg, let it sit a day, purge again, and then set it at serving pressure for a week and try again.

Also, a lot of us (myself included) have had better luck with longer beer lines. When I switched to 10' lines my foaming issues went away.

cbzdel said:

So now my beer was chilled, I cranked the PSI back up to 30psi and shook the hell out of the keg, 12 hours later before i was leaving for work I shook the hell out of it again, still at 30psi.

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Think of beer like soda. Picture turning the pressure way up, more than three times what is needed, and shaking it over and over.

That's what you did by shaking the keg at 30 psi. It'll be way overcarbed.

Then, by dispensing with short 5' lines, that works like a fire hose.

By dispensing overcarbed beer with such a short line, all the c02 is "knocked" out of suspension by the turbulance. That makes a seemingly flat beer full of foam.

For now, turn off the gas and keep releasing the pressure. Then, when it's de-carbed, you can start again. Set the regulator at 10 psi (if your kegerator is at 38 degrees) and then leave it alone until it equalizes, probably in a week to 10 days.

While that is happening, replace that 5' line with a 10' line of 3/16". That will make a huge difference.

I'm not fond of shaking beer, as it makes it foamy and can destroy head retention and it seems like it takes even longer in the long run for the beer to be carbed correctly.

If you can't wait 10 days next time, then you could always set the psi at 30 psi for 36 hours, then purge and reset to 10 psi for three days. That means the beer should be pretty well carbed in about 5 days.

I can wait 10 days next time, being my "first" i just really wanted to get something into my system and up and running, my double IPA that I am making right now I am fixing all the mistakes I am having with this Hef..

When setting it at 10 PSI for 10 days, do I need to shake it at all or just set it and forget it?? 10 PSI would be serving pressure as well? So I just set it to 10 PSI until the keg is empty? That way sounds much more easy that the shake and pray method!

cbzdel said:

When setting it at 10 PSI for 10 days, do I need to shake it at all or just set it and forget it?? 10 PSI would be serving pressure as well? So I just set it to 10 PSI until the keg is empty? That way sounds much more easy that the shake and pray method!

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No shaking.

Yes, carb and serve at 10 psi. You may find that you will need longer lines if you still get foam using this method.

Is 10' the max lines I should need? Or should I go longer?? I just used the lines which came with the kit so if I am to buy new ones I would rather do it once and be set for a long time, is this something I can only get at a home brew shop or at these rubber typical lines you can get from a home improvement shop?

I'd start with 12' just to be safe. You can always shorten it later, but you can't make it longer once it's been cut.

As far as where to get it, most of us use specialized beverage tubing and I'm not sure it's available just anywhere. I've purchased mine online from Brewing supply sources, but I do know that my LHBS carries it as well. If you have a LHBS nearby, I'd start there.

I've kegged 6 batches this way and don't have an issue.

set pressure to 40PSI (helps seat lid)
shake for 2-3mins (roll on floor)
leave pressure at 40 for 12-16hrs (I keg after work and then drop pressure in the morning before work)
turn down to serving pressure, pour a glass and enjoy.

It also helps to have your beer cold. if it's warm, it will take longer to carb up.

if you shake it up, it carbs much quicker but it's hard to know exactly how much it's absorbing. rolling for a few minutes speeds it up, letting it sit for 12hrs allows it to relax some, and returning to serving pressure for pouring. it gets me to the point where it's either ready to drink or needs another couple days at serving pressure.

oh, and my lines are 6' long of 3/16".

I think what confuses me the most is that everyone has a slightly different method that works for them, and I tend to read them all and create my own hybrid version that turns into an "epic fail"

Some people have good luck with cranking and shaking, some have bad results. It's inherently inaccurate, based on feel and guesstimates, hence the mixed results.

I've never heard of anybody having bad results with the "set and forget" method. It's calculated and controlled, and impossible to screw up.

I don't know why people would do it any other way, unless you just have to have the beer carbed "right now".

With my IPA I will keep it simple and take my time, I dont want to ruin that one

I was rushing the Hef because the hobby was new to me, plus impatient, plus I was running out of commercial beer.

For the set it and forget it, does it need to be cold or can I do it at room temp?

There is no fail. You still have beer! This game is all about patience. If you're over-carbed just release the pressure and commit to waiting a few days.

I generally put my just-filled keg in the fridge for a day or two with no CO2 to chill it. Then I connect the C02 line at serving pressure. (I actually split my C02 line, so I can't really crank it up anyway.) I don't connect the serving line to the newly carbing keg for about a week, then I generally have 'lightly' carbed beer. After another 3 or 4 days you have perfectly fine beer.

hunter_la5 said:

Some people have good luck with cranking and shaking, some have bad results. It's inherently inaccurate, based on feel and guesstimates, hence the mixed results.

I've never heard of anybody having bad results with the "set and forget" method. It's calculated and controlled, and impossible to screw up.

I don't know why people would do it any other way, unless you just have to have the beer carbed "right now".

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just like everything else in homebrewing there are many ways to do something and with shaking or rolling it's not any more inaccurate then the set and forget method. there are too many variable with kegging. what temp your beer is, line length, do you like super fizzy beer or just lightly, how accurate are you at setting the regulator etc. all play a part in how fast and accurate you are in the process. I could set and forget one keg at 12PSI and another at 13PSI. one will be ready before the other.

why not bust carb it? I can drink my carbed beer tomorrow vs. waiting 1-2 weeks.

I'm not slamming either method. both work. it's another preference thing!!

I suggest getting a log book to keep track of every thing you do. then you can tweak something when it's not quite the way you want it.

cbzdel said:

For the set it and forget it, does it need to be cold or can I do it at room temp?

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It should be cold. The warmer the beer, the more pressure is needed. Consult the carbonation table to determine what pressure to use for your temperature and desired carbonation level.

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

JDGator said:

just like everything else in homebrewing there are many ways to do something and with shaking or rolling it's not any more inaccurate then the set and forget method. there are too many variable with kegging. what temp your beer is, line length, do you like super fizzy beer or just lightly, how accurate are you at setting the regulator etc. all play a part in how fast and accurate you are in the process. I could set and forget one keg at 12PSI and another at 13PSI. one will be ready before the other.

why not bust carb it? I can drink my carbed beer tomorrow vs. waiting 1-2 weeks.

I'm not slamming either method. both work. it's another preference thing!!

I suggest getting a log book to keep track of every thing you do. then you can tweak something when it's not quite the way you want it.

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I agree, in the end it comes down to preferences, personal pro vs con, innumerable variables, etc. As with anything in homebrewing, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and your experience will always vary.

I'm not saying that your method does not work, but to me (emphasis on the "to me" part, I'm no expert and this is just my opinion) it is simply is not worth the risk/hassle of overcarbing. I don't mind waiting a few more days, that's why I have a pipeline.

One point that I will contend, set and forget is absolutely more accurate than burst carbing/shaking. There are only two variables at play: temp and pressure. If you use a temp control device and leave your regulator the hell alone, there's zero chance of getting different results the next time.

With crank-n-shake, your agitation, duration of different pressures/levels of agitation, etc is introducing more variables that are not easily measured. That's not to say with some experience you can't learn to control this with good results, but I am saying that it is inherently less predictable (especially for new brewers) with more being left to the senses of the brewer and less to cut-and-dry math/physics.

In the end, it's up to every homebrewer to experiment with different methods and determine what works best for them. That's just part of the hobby.

hunter_la5 said:

It should be cold. The warmer the beer, the more pressure is needed. Consult the carbonation table to determine what pressure to use for your temperature and desired carbonation level.

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php



I agree, in the end it comes down to preferences, personal pro vs con, innumerable variables, etc. As with anything in homebrewing, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and your experience will always vary.

I'm not saying that your method does not work, but to me (emphasis on the "to me" part, I'm no expert and this is just my opinion) it is simply is not worth the risk/hassle of overcarbing. I don't mind waiting a few more days, that's why I have a pipeline.

One point that I will contend, set and forget is absolutely more accurate than burst carbing/shaking. There are only two variables at play: temp and pressure. If you use a temp control device and leave your regulator the hell alone, there's zero chance of getting different results the next time.

With crank-n-shake, your agitation, duration of different pressures/levels of agitation, etc is introducing more variables that are not easily measured. That's not to say with some experience you can't learn to control this with good results, but I am saying that it is inherently less predictable (especially for new brewers) with more being left to the senses of the brewer and less to cut-and-dry math/physics.

In the end, it's up to every homebrewer to experiment with different methods and determine what works best for them. That's just part of the hobby.

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I have to disagree with you about the set and forget being more accurate. I don't think either methods are accurate when using an analog gauge and all the other factors involved with both set ups.

i'd say they are a tie if anything. it's like long division math and short. both give you the correct answer.

Set and forget is more accurate by definition. It's not an opinion. You know the temp of the beer (you should). You know the pressure being applied (if the gauge is accurate). You wait. It reaches the exact volume of dissolved CO2 that is on the chart, no more no less and it won't change once equilibrium is reached.

If you crank and shake, the only way to know the volumes of CO2 is to give things a chance to equalized and apply a pressure gauge to measure. Everyone should do whatever they like to do to either rush the drinking of the beer, or be more exacting, but it gets extremely annoying trying to help people troubleshoot their foam factories when they read anecdotal instructions on carbing that are not very easy to repeat.

If you think crank and shake is all that accurate, when you're ready to drink your beer, do you know exactly how many volumes of CO2 is in the beer? Of course you don't.

Rule of thumb.

Use 10' of line.

Set the pressure at 30 psi for 24 hours. Purge it, drop it to 8 - 12 psi depending on beer type, sample it in 3 days or more to see how it's carbed.

Bobby_M said:

Set and forget is more accurate by definition. It's not an opinion. You know the temp of the beer (you should). You know the pressure being applied (if the gauge is accurate). You wait. It reaches the exact volume of dissolved CO2 that is on the chart, no more no less and it won't change once equilibrium is reached.

If you crank and shake, the only way to know the volumes of CO2 is to give things a chance to equalized and apply a pressure gauge to measure. Everyone should do whatever they like to do to either rush the drinking of the beer, or be more exacting, but it gets extremely annoying trying to help people troubleshoot their foam factories when they read anecdotal instructions on carbing that are not very easy to repeat.

If you think crank and shake is all that accurate, when you're ready to drink your beer, do you know exactly how many volumes of CO2 is in the beer? Of course you don't.

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Its like skinning a cat. More then one way of doing it. Ones no more efficent then the next.

After i shake my beer for 2-3 min and leave at 40psi for 12-16hrs my beer is close. Drop to serving pressure and next day i'm ready. You think you can honestly say you know the difference between 2.7 and 2.8??? I call bull**** on anyone who claims they can. It's like cooking and its all about preference. Someone may say it needs salt, and i say it needs more. You can take it too a lab and check, no doubt. Not too man of us do. So when its overcarbed or under its way off.

Sorry if i'm a little annoyed with this issue but to me there is no difference in the 2 options. One is slow and one is fast. Both with the same result. Beer with bubbles.

Oh and by the way. I'm drinking a version of Yoopers extract DFH 60 clone. It's mellowed out nicely now!!

There are plenty of ways to achieve some level of carbonation. No one can tell the difference between 2.7 or 2.8 volumes, and no one ever claimed to, but I know exactly how to get to either one of them with relative accuracy. Crank and shake doesn't get you to anything close to having to pick between .1 volumes. If "beer with bubbles" is as exacting as you want to be, that's fine but to say it is just as accurate as the set and forget method is absolutely incorrect.

I never said one method was BETTER, because given a loose requirement to get bubbles into the beer will be achieved with any method. However, you see the OP's post and it's like many others. Undercarbed, overcarbed, blowing foam. There is only ONE method that absolutely ensures no possibility of overcarbonation.

Well i guess i will bow out sir. I will drink my fine beer in 2-3 days every time i but a beer in my keg and you can wait your 1-2 weeks for the same.

I bow to you!!

All brewers new to kegging should stick to set and forget the first few times they keg so they have time to get to know their new kegging system.

After that I recommend set and forget but at that point it's personal preference.

It should be obvious that racking to a keg and "carbing" it in three days is never going to produce the same quality result as a couple of weeks of cold conditioning under constant pressure. Yeasty beer with excessive carbonic bite does not equal bright smooth tasting beer.

That alone should give folks pause...

Cheers!

Just wanted to give an update, I have let it sit now several days with ZERO gas hooked up and purging the pressure twice a day, today I pulled a sample using the off gas to pump though the keg, it came out slowly but for the first time it was VERY minimul foam, looking into the glass it looked like a glass of soad, there was so much carbonation! I took a sip and the excessive carbonation hit my mouth with a bite!

Its happening, slowly, but its getting there

Good news.