Substituting Table Sugar for Corn Sugar in an Imperial IPA

I'm gonna make an Imperial IPA, which calls for 2 lbs. of corn sugar at the end of the boil (or somewhere near the end).

Can I replace the 2 lbs. of corn sugar with 2 lbs. of table sugar?

Yes.

I've never tried it, but have heard that table sugar (sucrose) can introduce a cider-y flavor. Personally, I would stick with the dextrose to avoid that possible outcome.

You'll be fine using sucrose instead. New Belgium Ranger uses something like 12% Sucrose by total fermentable weight and it doesn't taste the slightest bit cidery.

Here is a good priming calculator: http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

I also found an interesting link today on yahoo: http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/9-ingredients-nutritionists-wont-touch-165300682.html

Ingredients Nutritionists Won't Touch

Corn: Don't panic-you can enjoy your corn on the cob if it's non-GMO; we're talking about modified cornstarch, dextrose, maltodextrin, and corn oil here. All are high in omega-6 fatty acids, which can promote inflammation, cancer, and heart disease. While your body needs both omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids to perform at its full potential, most experts recommend an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of 1:1-currently most Americans consume about 15 times more omega-6 acids than omega-3s, according to Valerie Berkowitz, R.D., director of nutrition at the Center for Balanced Health and author of The Stubborn Fat Fix.

You can substitute just fine. You won't get a cidery flavor from the sucrose, especially in such a big beer like an IIPA

I only use table sugar, tastes great, helps to dry out higher gravity beers.

Table sugar will be just fine. I suspect that if you're getting "cidery" flavors from table sugar, your problem is probably bad fermentation temperature control, not the sugar.

It has been my experience (through experimentation) that although cidery flavors are possible using table sugar, an ever-so-slightly higher amount of corn sugar will produce similar off-flavors. In other words, do it--it shouldn't make much of a difference.

In fact, through this experiment, I concluded that the head retention was a little neater with table sugar, so now I never bother with corn sugar at all.

sherma said:

I've never tried it, but have heard that table sugar (sucrose) can introduce a cider-y flavor. Personally, I would stick with the dextrose to avoid that possible outcome.

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If you have never tried it, why are you continuing to spread a myth? Table sugar does not cause cider like flavors. I use it all the time in Belgians and Saisons, so I know that it in fact does not cause cider like flavors.

The smaller amount used in an Imperial IPA is perfectly acceptable.

Used the table sugar. I've use it in IIPAs and high-ABV belgians.

Table sugar works fine for me. I've used it as up to 7% of grist in some beers in the 9-11% ABV range. At that level I can assure no cidery flavors.

beergolf said:

If you have never tried it, why are you continuing to spread a myth? Table sugar does not cause cider like flavors. I use it all the time in Belgians and Saisons, so I know that it in fact does not cause cider like flavors.

The smaller amount used in an Imperial IPA is perfectly acceptable.

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I have never tried it, true. Someone I know did and he thought it contributed to cider like flavor in a beer he made with sucrose, which is why my post contained the words "I have heard". I did not tell the OP that it WILL cause that flavor. Did I violate some rule of the forum whereby I am only allowed to post a reply containing information of which I have direct experience? Also, a quick search I just did of the forum contained this interesting find.

sherma said:

I have never tried it, true. Someone I know did and he thought it contributed to cider like flavor in a beer he made with sucrose, which is why my post contained the words "I have heard". I did not tell the OP that it WILL cause that flavor. Did I violate some rule of the forum whereby I am only allowed to post a reply containing information of which I have direct experience? Also, a quick search I just did of the forum contained this interesting find.

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You didn't violate any rules, but you ignorantly parroted false information that showed a clear lack of brewing fundamentals.

Dextrose (a monosaccharide also known as glucose) and sucrose (a disaccharide of glucose & fructose) can be added in quantities up to 20% in high gravity beers (many Belgians, double IPA's, etc) to aid in obtaining a low final gravity when a dry beer is desired, because both are 100% fermentable. Some malt sugars are un-fermentable (dextrins) or more difficult for standard ale yeast to ferment.

The "cidery" warnings are more for new brewers using simple kits that combine too much simple sugar with too little malt extract, combined with poor fermentation practices to end up with a cidery, very home-brewish tasting final product.

g-star said:

You didn't violate any rules, but you ignorantly parroted false information that showed a clear lack of brewing fundamentals.

Dextrose (a monosaccharide also known as glucose) and sucrose (a disaccharide of glucose & fructose) can be added in quantities up to 20% in high gravity beers (many Belgians, double IPA's, etc) to aid in obtaining a low final gravity when a dry beer is desired, because both are 100% fermentable. Some malt sugars are un-fermentable (dextrins) or more difficult for standard ale yeast to ferment.

The "cidery" warnings are more for new brewers using simple kits that combine too much simple sugar with too little malt extract, combined with poor fermentation practices to end up with a cidery, very home-brewish tasting final product.

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Also, it is my understanding that a lot of those cidery offflavors people attribute to using sucrose actually come from old and/or low quality extract.

Cider flavors may also be from "green" beer - a lot of beers, fermented too warm with too little and/or stressed yeast and not given enough time to fully condition will taste of apples from acetylaldehyde, a normal/common product of ale fermentations. This will condition out if given sufficient time.

g-star said:

You didn't violate any rules, but you ignorantly parroted false information that showed a clear lack of brewing fundamentals.

Dextrose (a monosaccharide also known as glucose) and sucrose (a disaccharide of glucose & fructose) can be added in quantities up to 20% in high gravity beers (many Belgians, double IPA's, etc) to aid in obtaining a low final gravity when a dry beer is desired, because both are 100% fermentable. Some malt sugars are un-fermentable (dextrins) or more difficult for standard ale yeast to ferment.

The "cidery" warnings are more for new brewers using simple kits that combine too much simple sugar with too little malt extract, combined with poor fermentation practices to end up with a cidery, very home-brewish tasting final product.

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Relaying an experience that an acquaintance of mine had is ignorantly parroting false information? I don't know what else went on with the beer he made, but he attributed the off flavor to the sugar, which is what I stated. I admit that in my original post I should have said it was personally told to me by an acquaintance instead of saying "I have heard", which may have made it sound like I was "continuing to spread a myth", but your response to my clarification was insulting and unnecessary.

You don't know me and you don't have any idea what I know about brewing. If I had said "Sucrose will make your beer have cider flavor" then your unwarranted and false attack on my "clear lack of brewing fundamentals" might have been justified.

Rather than attack me, perhaps you could just post your experience with using table sugar in brewing.

sherma said:

You don't know me and you don't have any idea what I know about brewing.

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The fact that you perpetuate false information based just on what someone told you, rather than research some very basic recipe formulation theory says an awful lot. Sorry.

My experience using sucrose and dextrose has been great in DIPA's, Belgian Golden Strongs, Tripels, and Quads, i.e. when it is appropriate in the style. Dry and drinkable beers, as intended.

Higher levels of simple sugars "can" lead to cidery flavors. The easily fermentable wort can run away from you if you aren't treating the yeast properly. Obviously, it doesn't have to go that way, but it can if you aren't careful. It's a pretty common off flavor from stressed yeast.

So, if you are going to use a lot of sugar in a high gravity beer:

1) Pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast
2) Aerate well
3) Consider using some yeast nutrient
4) make sure you control the temps in the range that the yeast perform well at.

g-star said:

The fact that you perpetuate false information based just on what someone told you, rather than research some very basic recipe formulation theory says an awful lot. Sorry.

My experience using sucrose and dextrose has been great in DIPA's, Belgian Golden Strongs, Tripels, and Quads, i.e. when it is appropriate in the style. Dry and drinkable beers, as intended.

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Just couldn't resist one more dig, could you? Glad I could be your punching bag for the day. Unfortunately, you are still attributing false information to what I said, leading me to believe that your reading comprehension is lacking.

It is pitiful that you stroke your ego by misconstruing what other people say, belittling them and attempting to make yourself out to be an expert.

Thanks for answering the question, though. Hope you enjoy those beers that turned out just as you intended.

sherma said:

Unfortunately, you are still attributing false information to what I said, leading me to believe that your reading comprehension is lacking.

It is pitiful that you stroke your ego by misconstruing what other people say, belittling them and attempting to make yourself out to be an expert.

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Nice try. Stop before you embarrass yourself any further.

I suggest educating yourself a bit more before chiming in on topics of which you lack a fundamental understanding.

g-star said:

The fact that you perpetuate false information based just on what someone told you, rather than research some very basic recipe formulation theory says an awful lot. Sorry.

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Take it easy guys. This hobby is full of anecdotal information. Chock full of it. Of course we pass this tribal wisdom on. No one is innocent here.

This one in particular I'm fairly certain is a myth. I've definitely used lots of sugar in stuff without any problem.

It is pretty irritating when myths are propagated by new brewers actually. Not a big deal but irritating none the less. It'd be great if responders respond to questions like this from their own experience. I've found that one billion bits of brewing advice are not applicable in my experience and love reading about *actual* repeated experiences that offer possibilities for my next beer.

I use cane sugar in most of my beers! No cider flavors going on close to 100 so far. I like my beer dry and a little sugar does the trick even in small beers. Try this: mash at 160 (!) on a medium beer, say 1.050, and add 2 oz sugar (in a 5 gallon batch.)

What if you miss your gravity at the end of the boil? Try adding cane sugar to compensate instead of DME - done that 6 or 7 times and the beer was fantastic, in fact the first time I did that many moons ago I rebrewed exactly the same, adding 4 oz of sugar at the end of the boil to a 1.054 PA because the original was great.

Of course YMMV, and LOL, and WTF etc. and so on...

Steve da sleeve

I used 1 pound of table sugar in a 10 gallon pale ale recently, and observed no off flavors. I plan to do the same in my upcoming IIPA.