Does higher mash temp create darker color beer?

First off let me just say that I am still new to the home brewing craft, have a whole bunch of new equipment, and am still learning how to work with this equipment.

That said I want to pose a short question and follow up with the specifics.

The literal question is; Does a higher mash temperature create a darker color beer?

EG: if you mash at 145 you would get one color, but at 155 you get a darker color from the crystal malts and other such things.

The reason I'm asking (involving a short story, and you can skip this part if you just have an answer) is. I have officially done two all grain brews. One of which is a Cirtra IPA with complete and devistating success (delicious), and the other a quasi Irish red ale which is the first brew I have done where I devised the entire recipe on my own accord.

The recipe is as follows: hopefully the calcs make sense

Target vol: 5 gal
Boil: 6 gal
OG: 1.070 or there abouts
FG: 1.016 or there abouts
SRM: 15
IBU: 39 (Which is a bit high for a red ale, this I know)

Maris Otter - 9 lb
Vienna Malt - 3 lb
Roasted Barley - 5 oz
Crystal 60 - 4 oz

Centennial(USA) - 1 oz @ 40 min
East Kent Goldings(UK) - .5 oz @ 20 min
Irish Moss - 1 tsp @ 15 min

Irish Ale WLP004 - Two vials with no starter (Warmed to 70f for about 3 hrs before pitching)


So as the story goes I am using new equipment for this brew, and I brought my strike temp up to high. I bought a Bayou 10 gal pot, which comes with a corrugated false bottom so I used the pot as my mash tun.

I brought 7.5 gal of water up to 168 and added the 13 or so pounds of grain to the pot which only reduced the temp to 162! I stirred the grain for a few minutes thinking that with the thermometer being so low on the pot that it just hadn't settled in with the grain addition. WRONG. It stayed there. I checked the temp with a secondary thermometer, and the one on the pot was spot on.

Now for the decision, and the reason why I'm pretty sure I've ruined the brew. I was going to add about .5 to 1 gal of room temp water to the tun to bring down the temp to the desired 152. My girlfriend, who was there with me, said why don't you just wait and see what happens. "Patients is a virtue" a little voice said in my head which I'm sure all homebrewers must know. So I decided to wait to see how long it would take for the temp to drop all the while stirring the mash every 5 min or so to mix the cold outside into the hot center. This was a sort of test to learn my equipment at the very least.

Over an hour the mash temp dropped from 162 to about 152. So a little bummed out I just decided to finish off the recipe and throw it in the fermenter to just go through the process and see what it will come out like. My OG from this series of events was 1.060. Not even close to the potential of the grain. I think...

When I drained the tun the liquid was more or less brown than looking even remotely reddish. Which is why I pose the question at the top.

At this time it has been three days since brew day, and today the bubbles have almost stopped from the fermenter. Though I hear constantly that you can not rely on the airlock to determine a finished fermentation a little voice sounds in my head "This does not bode well."

If you made it all the way through my short story I hope you enjoyed reading about my defeat.

So, aside from my possible ruined batch of beer, my question resides. Does a high mash temp create a darker beer than a lower one? Or is it simply the grain bill that will create a resultant hew to the brew? I was hoping for something that had a more or less red tint to it rather than looking like a brown ale.

Aside from that what do you think of my first conceived recipe? Sound good, or is there some serious refinement needed. My ultimate goal is to create a good tasting red ale, then when the season comes in (which is only two or so months) create a vanilla apricot non traditional irish red with it. What do ya think?

Thanks for reading I am a firm believer that one can learn more from their failures than one learns from success.

You definitely mashed high but its not ruined. Higher temps will contribute to mouthfeel/unfermentables but you definitely got extraction. Continue fermenting, pitch your yeast and wait and see. It might not come out amazing but you'll be able to drink it.

As far as the color goes, I'm not sure how much mash temps really contribute to that. I don't think they would. I would think darker colors would come from scorching wort during your boil.

Scorching wart eh? That's a very good pointed noted I haven't read or thought about yet. Thanks for the quick input

That's my best guess. To answer one of your previous questions: your malt bill should be what lends to color. I've never made a red ale, but BJCP guidelines say that it can be from Amber to a deep hue of red in color.

I brewed a 10 gallon batch of red ale with 8 oz of debittered black barley (SRM 550) and it also came out brown. Mash was good at 152 degrees, I'm confident that I didn't scorch my wort, either. It came out a lot more brown than I'd hoped. The next 2 times I brewed a red ale, I used 4 oz for 10 gallon batches, color was perfect. I think your problem is too much roasted malt, there will be a bit of a roasted flavor in your beer, but it will still be delicious. Just don't enter it in any competitions as an "Irish Red".

I had a darker irish red ale recently although the mash temps were fine. I think the issue is the grain bill and the water ratio. After looking at the ingredients indicate a stout or porter? (too much 80L)
Here is the recipe:

9lb Marris Otter
12oz Crystal 80L,
8oz Munich Malt,
3oz Pale Chocolate Malt,
3oz Roasted Barley
OG 1.046
FG 1.011
mashed at 154
achieved around 6 gallons in the fermentor

I really wouldn't suspect a higher mash temp to darken the brew any. Also, it will appear darker in the bk/fermentor than it will when it is in your glass. Due to the higher than planned mash temp, the FG will be higher than you planned, it will have more mouthfeel and sweetness, with not as much (if any) of the dryness that is typical for the style, but it will be beer, and probably a tasty one at that. You certainly did not ruin it. Relax, let this one play out and start thinking about the next one.

Short answer "yes they can". See "maillard reactions".

Given identical grain bills, the one mashed at higher temps maybe darker (I say "maybe" because obviously there are lots more variables involved).

I use this info when brewing partial mash Pilseners by adding most of the DME at flame out to keep the color light.

Curtis2010 said:

Short answer "yes they can". See "maillard reactions".

Given identical grain bills, the one mashed at higher temps maybe darker (I say "maybe" because obviously there are lots more variables involved).

I use this info when brewing partial mash Pilseners by adding most of the DME at flame out to keep the color light.

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I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, certainly won't be the last), but isn't maillard reaction more due to length of boil, as opposed to mash temps?

LLBeanJ said:

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, certainly won't be the last), but isn't maillard reaction more due to length of boil, as opposed to mash temps?

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As I understand it (I dont have a brewing sciences degree either), they are a function of both time and temp.

Here is a quick link on the whole Maillard Reaction thing. I hadn't heard of it until it was mentioned on this thread. Seems to be more boil related than mash, unless you use decoction. Then the maillard reaction may come into play.

I think I may have had to much roasted barley in the grain bill as was mentioned by a few people as well. Ah well. I will probably try this recipe again with a lower mash temp and less roasted barly for a side by side comparison

While there is a theoretical difference in the rate of maillard browning reactions between say 162 and 152, I can't imagine you would be able to tell that with the naked eye in a 1 hour mash. That is a whole lot smaller change than decreasing wort density by 50% or so at boiling temps with late extract additions.

The likely culprit here is just too much roasted barley. It's a really dominant color (and flavor).

Roasted Barley, Black Barley, Chocolate Malt, Black Patent and a lot of other grains contribute dark, dark colors. Water chemistry comes into play a bit too. Unless you're getting into mashing way too high or mashing out at boiling temperatures, it shouldn't affect your colour much if at all.

The only reason a higher (read: very, unrealistically high) temps during a mash would affect color is if you're extracting additional tannic acid from the hulls.

Now, scientifically speaking, larger, more complexed sugar molecules like dextrines will block more light than simple sugars like glucose or maltose. But in the amounts we're talking about it should only be perceptible under lab conditions.